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"Military Band Studies for Tuba", out of print?

Postby kathott » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:21 pm

Hello,
I'm looking for a copy of the "Military Band Studies", formerly published by Cundy-Bettoney. I am also seeking a "band excerpt book", if such a creature exists.
Why isn't there such a book, considering the long wind band tradition in the U.S.?
Thank you,
Kathott
Last edited by kathott on Fri May 19, 2017 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Alex C » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:35 pm

Copyright problems make the task too daunting.
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Postby windshieldbug » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:35 pm

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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Postby LoyalTubist » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:42 pm

Cundy-Bettoney was bought by Carl Fischer many years ago.

My sources tell me that this book was originally written in 1891. I don't think there are any problems with copyright. The problem is that this book is so old that Carl Fischer can't make any residual money from it.

I wish I could use some of the method books I used when I began in band almost 40 years ago. But, alas, no one will make money from them, so they have gone to the big publishing repository in the sky.

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Postby BVD Press » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:53 pm

LoyalTubist wrote:My sources tell me that this book was originally written in 1891. I don't think there are any problems with copyright. The problem is that this book is so old that Carl Fischer can't make any residual money from it.


Can you explain what you mean here? If the book was actually copyrighted in 1891 and anyone has a copy, I would be intertested in getting back in print. The question becomes, does anyone still play band charts from that far back?

Thanks,
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Postby Legendary Artists » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:12 pm

I would be intertested in getting back in print.


Ditto - I have already reprinted the Tyrrell Eb Book and would like to add to the collection.
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Postby dwaskew » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:10 am

how can one get a copy of the Tyrell Eb book?

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Postby Alex F » Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:21 am

If you refer to 40 Advanced Studies for Eb Bass, check with Dan Oberloh.

www.oberloh.com
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Postby LoyalTubist » Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:37 pm

The only books I have seen of this series lately are for clarinet. Carl Fischer will not print anything that it cannot earn money with. They don't usually sell public domain materials.
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Postby Chuck(G) » Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:21 pm

LoyalTubist wrote:The only books I have seen of this series lately are for clarinet. Carl Fischer will not print anything that it cannot earn money with. They don't usually sell public domain materials.


Isn't the Arban's trumpet book in the PD, as well as St. Jacome, not to mention Klosé for clarinet, etc.? If the market's big enough, they'll sell it.
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Postby iiipopes » Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:41 pm

And, of course, Carl Fisher may not give permission to copy one of their out-of-print books, because that may indicate demand to republish, so we're all still $(&%^#! anyway!
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Postby dwaskew » Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:49 pm

Thanks!

dwa

If you refer to 40 Advanced Studies for Eb Bass, check with Dan Oberloh. [/quote]
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Postby BVD Press » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:08 pm

iiipopes wrote:And, of course, Carl Fisher may not give permission to copy one of their out-of-print books, because that may indicate demand to republish, so we're all still $(&%^#! anyway!


If you have the above with an 1891 copyright on it, you can legally do whatever you would like with it. Copy it, publish, display it online, display it on a billboard, make a movie of it, whatever you can imagine.

As to whether things will make money, a good example of something that has been around forever and still sells:

Bach Inventions for any 2 instruments.

New versions come out every year from various publishers and still there are more versions appearing. They also seem to sell!!!

Carl Fischer is probably directing their advertising and marketing to something else currently. Would they make money on a tuba book, probably. But are they known for Tuba publications and would people look their now, probably not.

Would it make since from me as CImarron Music to publish Oboe Quartets now, probably not unless I was going gear the company in the direction. On the other hand, if there is an old tuba excerpt book that is in PD I would be and am extremely intrerested in getting the book back in print. Would it make money, not sure, but to me getting music in print is not only about making money. It is about getting GOOD charts or historically significant pieces back in print.

If anyone is interested, here are some projects coming up that I almost guarantee will not earn any money, but I think they should be in print.

Viola, Oboe and Tuba piece by Vaclav Nelhybel (unpublished)

2 Nelhybel Trombone Quartets

Commissioned Brass 5tets that were first published by JW Pepper in the late 1800's. I am on the road, but I believe there were 12. These are nice charts and are intersting for the time period

Like the 5tets above, another book of 4tets.

I firmly believe these pieces should be in print and will be valuable (musically) additions to the Brass repertoire.

Wishing everyone well,
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Postby iiipopes » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:27 pm

Even if you have a 1st edition with the 1891 copyright, you would need to be sure it actually did expire, and was not renewed later on in a subsequent edition.
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Postby Chuck(G) » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:46 pm

iiipopes wrote:Even if you have a 1st edition with the 1891 copyright, you would need to be sure it actually did expire, and was not renewed later on in a subsequent edition.


Do the arithmetic and you'll see that there's no way for an 1891 published work, even with renewals to be still under US copyright. An 1891 work was eligible for a coypright term of 28 years plus a non-automatic renewal term of 28 years, which means that its copyright ran out in 1947 at the latest.

In fact, materials coyprighted in the US prior to 1923 are all in the public domain, renewals notwithstanding.
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Postby BVD Press » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:00 pm

As Chuck stated, if you have something with a copyright date before 1923 the piece would be free to do whatever you choose to do with it.
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Postby LoyalTubist » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:02 am

I had a friend who worked for Carl Fischer when I lived in New Jersey. He was the one who told me about this. One thing you might notice: Beelzebub, was composed in the late 1800s. When the copyright ran out, some editing was done to the piano accompaniment. That necessitated the need for another copyright... so some of you might have a version of Beelzebub which has a later copyright. I found an original copy of it in an antique shop. It's virtually the same thing--a couple of clefs were changed in the piano part.
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Postby Chuck(G) » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:56 am

LoyalTubist wrote:I had a friend who worked for Carl Fischer when I lived in New Jersey. He was the one who told me about this. One thing you might notice: Beelzebub, was composed in the late 1800s. When the copyright ran out, some editing was done to the piano accompaniment. That necessitated the need for another copyright... so some of you might have a version of Beelzebub which has a later copyright.


You have to be careful--if you're going to copy or tinker with the Host suites for military band, be sure you get your hands on a 1921/1922 Boosey edition or a manuscript copy.

The later postwar Boosey editions added extra parts (like bari sax) and are still under copyright and contain their own special set of errors.
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Re: "Military Band Studies for Tuba", out of print?

Postby kathott » Fri May 19, 2017 12:43 pm

Any recent leads on this old "band excerpts" book, now of print? Although I am not a regular band player, I have made copies over the years of demanding parts which I have played or encountered. These are for my own enjoyment, or to throw at an unsuspecting student who utters an uniformed slur regarding band music.
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Re: "Military Band Studies for Tuba", out of print?

Postby mbeastep » Mon May 22, 2017 2:12 pm

I found my photocopy of The Tuba Player's Studio by Paul de Ville. No publisher's info. I have 23 pages and am probably missing some. It's mostly transcriptions of classical orchestral pieces, plus some original tone poems for band including The Death of Custer, by Lee Johnson. Many of the arrangements are by Theo Moses-Tobani, including the Schubert Unfinished Symphony, Fidelio Overture and 5th Symphony of Beethoven, selections from Verdi's "Attila," and Wagner selections from "Rienzi," "Siegfried," "Gotterdammerung," "Meistersinger (in Bb)," and "Lohengrin." A lot of stuff that I wouldn't want to play on a CC tuba.

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