TubeNet

I now am going to go out on a limb and annoy many people.
Instead of begging and pleading to play tuba on music that was never written for tuba, since tuba is not found in much of the standard jazz charts, I think it is a good idea for the proficient H.S. tubist to use this opportunity to become a doubler. Bass Trombone, Electric Bass, Upright Bass, and Bari Sax are probably the most common choices. The advanced high school tubist is already playing tuba in marching band, concert band, orchestra, and perhaps other ensembles, so why not use this opportunity to learn another instrument that will make you a more versatile professional? Jazz is a totally different animal than Sousa or Bruckner (if your director knows how to swing) and is a great experience that will widen your musical (not just tuba) horizons. I went the bass trombone route because we had too many good electric bass players already. I don't regret it and in fact I decided to get very serious about bass trombone two years ago and now make a little money playing it and teaching trombone besides tuba.
My take on playing tuba in jazz band, unless there is a chart that calls for it, would be the same as asking to play tuba on a Mozart Symphony just because you like Mozart. And, yes, I am sure that was done in the early days of recordings to get enough bass to record. (BTW, I learned upright bass in H.S. also so I could play a few of those Mozart and Haydn works.)

Why this obsession with "big band" playing? Anyone reading this board who has even dabbled in combo playing knows that this is where it's at. The only problem is (and now it's my turn to piss everyone off) that it takes significantly more work to become even a mildly proficient jazz soloist (read:improviser) than to attain a similar level of "classical" training. However, should you accomplish this, your HS director will be BEGGING you to play in the jazz band, for most HS groups lack soloists who improvise at the overall performance level of the ensemble. Furthermore, you will find 50 times more opportunities to perform in small groups that in big bands once you get to college, and eventually, the "real world". So, tubaboy, I hope you have not played your last jazz concert. But, you may have to do some extra work (both in the practice room, and in terms of networking) in order to make it happen.i

schlepporello wrote:Sadly, when I was in high school, our instructor had the all too common notion that a modern jazz band uses a bass guitar to carry the bass line.

Present day big bands do use either electric &/or amplified acousitc bass in the rhythm section, and so it should be. The tubists' function in such an ensemble is not as the bass line, as in days of old (when tubas were used 'cause they could produce more volume than the acoustic bass). However, in this ensemble the tuba is part of the trombone section. Often times -- in more advanced-level charts -- there is a written tuba part. If not, (using good judgement) covering the 4th t-bone part may work; or -- as I have often had to do, create a part yourself by wisely using selected "bits" to work along with the t-bone (borrow from bari sax part at times, 4th t-bone part, and reviewing chord voicings in the score to pick appropriate chord tones).

Don't try me.

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We tried to have a jazz band in high school, and it varied from a not-quite-full-size big band to a combo group. I didn't play tuba at all there (actually, never played tuba in high school, although I started playing tuba outside of HS), playing trombone instead.

On about 95% of the charts we played in college, there was no tuba prescribed. I went ahead & played trombone anyway. Besides, I felt that I learned more, stylistically, than if I restricted myself to just tuba.

As far as the "true essence of jazz" being found only in a certain kind of ensemble, well, that's hogwash. Jazz music is jazz music -- who cares what assemblage of instruments makes the noise?

Back in the day I played trombone. In college I switched more or less to bass bone and then I started to play some tuba. I used tuba on tunes that called for it like some Kenton stuff, but still mainly I was a bone player not a tubist. That came later for me.

ken k

MartyNeilan wrote:I now am going to go out on a limb and annoy many people.
Instead of begging and pleading to play tuba on music that was never written for tuba, since tuba is not found in much of the standard jazz charts, I think it is a good idea for the proficient H.S. tubist to use this opportunity to become a doubler.

I suppose all the tubas I see used in stage bands in the 20's, 30's, and thru the 50's was just my imagination. It's true that a great many tubiasts doubled on string bass... but I would think that the charts were one in the same. I often play string bass charts on tuba and they sound just fine.

TubaTinker wrote:

MartyNeilan wrote:I now am going to go out on a limb and annoy many people.
Instead of begging and pleading to play tuba on music that was never written for tuba, since tuba is not found in much of the standard jazz charts, I think it is a good idea for the proficient H.S. tubist to use this opportunity to become a doubler.

I suppose all the tubas I see used in stage bands in the 20's, 30's, and thru the 50's was just my imagination. It's true that a great many tubiasts doubled on string bass... but I would think that the charts were one in the same. I often play string bass charts on tuba and they sound just fine.

Nobody loves the big band era music more than I do, and indeed a lot of that music used tuba to wonderful effect. But H.S. jazz bands today are playing newer arrangements that are a different sound, and I have to agree with Marty that tuba just doesn't work well with that sound. I liken it to the marching bands I see that have some idiot marching with an electric bass, and another idiot next to him marching with a dolly with the amp on it (okay, yeah, that's worse ).

Tuba would work great on some pieces, especially ballads, so doubling on bass and tuba would be great. Trombone-tuba also works out well. I originally wanted to play tuba in my H.S. jazz band, and am so glad now that my director said no. I bought myself a tenor trombone at the end of my sophomore year (I actually started on bone in elementary school, but hadn't played one in 4 years) and practiced like a maniac all summer. We had an unbelievably good trombone section, so I never rose above third in that band, though I shared lead in my college jazz band. I added bass bone years later when I joined a church that owned a bass bone but had no player. If Joe "all thumbs" Baker can pick up a trombone and get proficient in a summer, anyone can!
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Joe Baker, who cautions that to the man who has only a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Biggs wrote:I agree 100% with Marty Neilan.

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Check's in the mail, Biggs!

Biggs wrote:...jazz has many variants some of which (like big band/dance) DO NOT have tuba. They DO NOT have tuba for a reason!!! ...Tuba, not possessing that desired sound, must sit this one out.

No way. Seemed okay for (trumpet player/composer) Kenny Wheeler to include tuba in his big band writing.

By extension, then the use of French Horn in a large jazz ensemble (big band) also must be excluded? Tell that to Rob McConnel and the Boss Brass -- one of the heaviest and best big bands on the planet. They use them to great advantage -- nice voice and color to fill the gap between the trombones and trumepts

What about the ensembles where the sax section players all double on other instruments as well, such as flute, piccolo, clarinet, and bass clarinet -- all used by great jazz ensemble writers to expand the available color pallete.

Sorry, tuba must sit this out? Not true.

Yes, but for only one day. The year I got to high school we also got a new band director. He conducted try-outs with the intrumentation from the year before. After the 1st practice, he decided that he didn't want tuba in the jazz band, handed me a bass trombone, a new music folder, and told me to learn the parts by next week (mind you, I had never played trombone before). One week later I was ready for practice.

I hate to actually admit it here, but I played trumpet

You're not alone "Windsheildbug". I played trumpet in concert band, drumset in jazz band and swing choir, and did the drum major bit in the marching band. Didn't fall in love with the tuba till much later in life and think back now that it would've been pretty cool to play some of those jazz band bass licks on tuba!

windshieldbug wrote:I hate to actually admit it here, but I played trumpet

... and were better than anybody else at it, too, I'd bet!

Are you kidding? I'm still better at it! I played Jeramiah Clarke at my sister's wedding!

How many trumpet players does it take to change a lightbulb?
Five. One to handle the bulb and four to tell him how much better they could have done it.

I played bass guitar and guitar in different years. Another tuba player played the 5th or bass bone parts, as we had no real bass bones.

I was so proud to play trumpet in our high school stage band. I thought tuba was an anti-chick magnet in those days and I wanted to do this Ray Anthony-Al Hurt thing.
I doubled on bass guitar 5 years and rhythm guitar for 25 but these last few years I am determined to get it done on tuba. I realize that I must work my tail off to do it but if I pull it off, my audiences and co-pickers seem to really appreciate it. Around here a tuba in a jazz/rock band is novel enough to be a real hook.

After reading some of these posts I guess I didn't realise how good I had it back in HS 30 years ago. We had a separate Orchestra director, a Concert Band director, an Assistant Band Director who was the marching band director and a separate Jazz Band Director.

The jazz band director was at the same time the tuba player for the old Medicare 7,8, or 9 Jazz Band. We had both a Big Band Jazz band as well as small jazz band combo's.

I guess I never thought about it, but the director must have gone to great lengths to find pieces that included tuba, because I had a part about 75% of the time and got to solo at most concerts. I assumed at the time it was that way everywhere. I do recall at contests wondering why none of the other bands had a tuba. It probably helped to that the orchestra director was also a tuba player which meant they understood what a tuba was capable of doing versus what a flute playing director might think.

I just heard on the radio the other day a piece by Maynard Ferguson's Big Band (I think it was called Nightwalker or Streetwalker) with Don Butterfield on tuba and it was great. Really nice job by Mr. Butterfield. If I hadn't been in heavy traffic I would have written it down because I'd like to pick up the CD if it is still out.

I think tuba definitely can have a part in a big band including a solo role. Guys just have to make it happen. Who would of thought of tuba in rock and yet it is being done or in punk bands or all tuba jazz bands or tuba & guitar etc. Look at unique groups like the Dixie Power Trio, Rhythm and Brass or groups like Buckwheat Zydeco that sometimes use tuba. Zydeco Tuba -- who'd a thunk it? Taj Mahal effectively uses the tuba in his Blues music. I think tuba in various groups is only limited by the imagination and talent of the player.
Tuba in Big Band -- you betcha![/b]

I was trying to look for a list of big name bands from the big band era that used a tuba. A friend of mine in Chicago tried to help me with this, but he only listed those bands that stayed in Chicago--he owned a chain of record stores there during World War Two.

Anyway, here are some of the bands most people would readily know of from the Big Band era:

• Guy Lombardo (duh!)

• Sammy Kaye (used tuba in everything)

• Harry James (used tuba sometimes)

• Kay Kyser (used tuba in everything)

• Horace Heidt (used tuba in everything)

• Stan Kenton (did not begin using tuba until the 1960s)

• Woody Herman (used tuba rarely, but all the time with his last "herd")

Some of you reading this can probably add to my list.

An aside--Stan Kenton began his career arranging for Gus Arnheim in the early 1930s, whose band still used tuba as the rhythmic bass. The only band on this list that used the tuba that way was Guy Lombardo.