Orchestral Works Requiring Two Tubas

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:21 pm

Is anyone aware of a comprehensive list of orchestral works that require two tubas. (i.e. A Daniels for Two Tubas.)

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:41 pm

I'm not really sure there is a definitive list...

Maybe we should just jot down pieces we can think of and you can glean something from that!

Symphonie fantastique (Hector Berlioz)

Rite of Spring (Igor Stravinsky)

Also sprach Zarathustra (Richard Strauss)

Jarrod · Post by **Jarrod** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:12 pm

Berlioz-Te Deum (?)
Berlioz-Requiem (10 tubas)
Strauss-Alpine Symphony
Varese'-Arcana (?)
Walton-Belshazzar's Feast (3 tubas)

that's all I can think of...

vlatuba · Post by **vlatuba** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:02 am

Tippett - Sym 4
Prokofiev - Ivan the Terrible
Corigliano - Sym 3
Mussogsky/Gortchakov - Pictures ay an Exhibition
Berlioz - Franc Judges

Steve Marcus · Post by **Steve Marcus** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:22 am

John Adams: Harmonielehre
Harrison Birtwistle: The Shadow of Night

Water Music · Post by **Water Music** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:47 am

I didn't know Walton's Belshazzar's Feast took 3 Tubas. When I saw it, it was only one. Maybe a different score?

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:09 am

When I played Belshazzar's Feast, it was only for one tuba...

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:20 am

I think the Berlioz Requiem was for 3 full orchestras and a total of 9 or 10 tubas.It takes 3 tubas to pull it off at minimum.Opium is great stuff!.....the Requiem is pretty cool itself...

Pete Link · Post by **Pete Link** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:33 am

Water Music wrote:I didn't know Walton's Belshazzar's Feast took 3 Tubas. When I saw it, it was only one. Maybe a different score?

There are two "optional" off stage brass band parts I believe.
Add to the list
John Adams Naive and Sentimental Music
Gorchakov(sp?) Pictures at an Exhibition

Pete Link · Post by **Pete Link** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:59 am

tuben wrote:
Pete Link wrote:
Water Music wrote:I didn't know Walton's Belshazzar's Feast took 3 Tubas. When I saw it, it was only one. Maybe a different score?
There are two "optional" off stage brass band parts I believe.
I too played this a few years ago and we brought in extra brass players for those parts and I don't recall any other tubas.

RC

I can assure you that I have played and seen it played with all 3 tubas as well. It can most certainly be done without the extra tubas. If you get ahold of a librarians orchestral rep book(author David ?) you will see where it lists the "optional" parts. I'd imagine management could certainly save a few bucks by leaving these parts out but the effect is great.

Jarrod · Post by **Jarrod** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:59 am

Definitely 3 tubas for the Walton. Maybe not always, but I know of 2 specific instances it's been done with 3. I don't know if the Berlioz Requiem has ever been done with 10, but that's what is called for, I believe. Crazy

cambrook · Post by **cambrook** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:01 am

John Adams On the Transmigration of Souls
Richard Meale Very High Kings

Jonathan Fowler · Post by **Jonathan Fowler** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:54 am

Berlioz-Damnation of Faust

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:21 am

The works cited above, are a good start. I'll put this on my projects list. After a lot of thumbing through Daniels, I'll post what I've come up with.

jtuba · Post by **jtuba** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:04 pm

Penderecki - Seven Gates of Jerusalem

I was at the NY premiere and it's a great piece. The second tuba is offstage with a brass ensemble and offstage bass trumpet solo.

finnbogi · Post by **finnbogi** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:32 am

Olivier Messiaen: Et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum
Olivier Messiaen: Ã‰clairs sur l'au-delÃ
Ernst Krenek: Symphonie nr. 2
Henryk Gorecki: Beatus vir (four tubas)

TUBAMUSICIAN87 · Post by **TUBAMUSICIAN87** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:28 pm

Everyone keeps mentioning that these peices were written to have 2 tubas but when most of these were written tubas werent around they were written for 2 Opheclieds(spelling?) and the reason being is that certain harmonics on the ophiclied did not speak as well as the open notes, therefore 2 ophiclieds of different keys, such as one in C and one in B, so that all the notes can be played chromatically between the 2 instruments and have open resonance. the tuba as we know it doesnt have that problem but we keep the 2 instruments for tradition and chord building. little bit of history

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:20 pm

TUBAMUSICIAN87 wrote:Everyone keeps mentioning that these peices were written to have 2 tubas but when most of these were written tubas werent around they were written for 2 Opheclieds(spelling?) and the reason being is that certain harmonics on the ophiclied did not speak as well as the open notes, therefore 2 ophiclieds of different keys, such as one in C and one in B, so that all the notes can be played chromatically between the 2 instruments and have open resonance. the tuba as we know it doesnt have that problem but we keep the 2 instruments for tradition and chord building. little bit of history

Yes, but... As an example, Symphonie Fantastique by Berlioz, has two tuba parts (well, ophicleide) that have the tubas playing at the same time, and they don't always play the same notes.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:31 pm

Mark wrote:
TUBAMUSICIAN87 wrote:Everyone keeps mentioning that these peices were written to have 2 tubas but when most of these were written tubas werent around they were written for 2 Opheclieds(spelling?) and the reason being is that certain harmonics on the ophiclied did not speak as well as the open notes, therefore 2 ophiclieds of different keys, such as one in C and one in B, so that all the notes can be played chromatically between the 2 instruments and have open resonance. the tuba as we know it doesnt have that problem but we keep the 2 instruments for tradition and chord building. little bit of history
Yes, but... As an example, Symphonie Fantastique by Berlioz, has two tuba parts (well, ophicleide) that have the tubas playing at the same time, and they don't always play the same notes.

Yes, but... that involved a clever composer optimizing for the better notes of each.

But by the same token, how does one know what he would have done if writing for a modern instrument? Certainly the tessitura of the parts lends itself better to the "French" tuba in C than a modern 6/4 CC.

The range of parts orchestral tubists need to cover runs the gamut. And this WAS written for more than one of the instruments a tubist needs to cover.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:59 pm

TUBAMUSICIAN87 wrote:Everyone keeps mentioning that these peices were written to have 2 tubas but when most of these were written tubas werent around they were written for 2 Opheclieds(spelling?) and the reason being is that certain harmonics on the ophiclied did not speak as well as the open notes, therefore 2 ophiclieds of different keys, such as one in C and one in B, so that all the notes can be played chromatically between the 2 instruments and have open resonance. the tuba as we know it doesnt have that problem but we keep the 2 instruments for tradition and chord building. little bit of history

Not true. Ophicleides had holes. They were not powerful instruments. When Hector Berlioz wrote two tuba parts for Symphonie fantasique, he knew what he was doing, it wasn't the drugs talking. The two tubas have a few times in which they play in unison and in octaves.

Check the ophicleide part for Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream or Elijah. Then explain what you were trying to say. (I understand what you are trying to say; it's just not true.)

Because Berlioz was high on drugs when he was writing much of his music, I doubt he was giving harmonics much thought. (This is a little more history: Hector Berlioz was a opium addict.)