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Also in "Page Layout" you can "Fit Music" with as many measures per stave as you wish. I'll also bet you have the page reduction set at 100%. Try 60% or so on the score and see if you like it. PM me if any of this does not make sense or if you have other questions.

This is what is so good about Sibelius: You can make the music however small you want to make it.

Paul M wrote:You can do that in Finale as well.

The problem with a small number of parts is that to have them take up the length of the page (without huge spacing between systems) they have to be big enough that you're left with about 2-4 measures. IF the page layout doesn't matter, use landscape instead of portrait. You'll get several more measures per line.

I also make my scores in landscape orientation, especially for a small ensemble score such as you are making. You should easily be able to get 2 systems on a page also with only 4-6 parts in the score. As was mentioned use the % tool. Just click on the percent tool and then in page view click in the upper left hand corner of the page and it will allow you to change the size of the music to whatever size you want to use.

Then also use the mass edit tool to get the number of measures per system. Click near the beginning of the top staff to highlight the entire staff and then under mass edit menu click on fit music and you will get a menu giving you a number of options. I believe you must do thins in page view not scroll view. I have never done it in scrol view since you can't see what you are getting in that view. when I am adjusting the page look I always use page view rather than scroll view. I use scroll view to input the notes and to play back the music.

ken k

Paul M wrote:You can do that in Finale as well.

The problem with a small number of parts is that to have them take up the length of the page (without huge spacing between systems) they have to be big enough that you're left with about 2-4 measures. IF the page layout doesn't matter, use landscape instead of portrait. You'll get several more measures per line.

I am a former Finale user who is now a happy Sibelius user (and no, I don't work for the company!) The latest Mac version of Sibelius seems to have everything I liked about Finale and Sibelius combined.

Try a sample of Sibelius. You can get an unlimited free demo (it does everything except save, publish music, or print more than the first page of a score--you get watermarks all over the copy) at

http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/download/index.pl

Bill

For Finale, go to the "Mass Edit" tool and select all. Choose unlock from the pulldown menu or command-u if you are on a MAC. This will allow the measure to space themeselves a bit better.

You can also use the same "Mass Edit" tool to select a measure and with the arrow keys, move a measure up a line or to the previous or next page.

feel free to send the file to me privately if you are still having issues.

Personal opinion on the Finale vs. Sibelius issue:

I use Finale, but have Sibelius to print off scores that people submit to me and then I put them back into Finale. I prefer Finale because that I was I started with and am very much used to it. I have given Sibelius a chance, but it is not flexible enough for me. I do like the same file for the score and parts!

If a person is looking to try a program, download both programs and maybe others and play with them both for a period of time. Find out what is best for your needs.

You can do most things in both programs, it is just trying to figure out how to them that is the issue!

Out of the box, Sibelius is a better program. Get into the programs a bit and I have found Sibelius limiting. I cannot tell you how many times I have called tech support at Sibelius and gotton this reply: "Our program does not do that currenty" This is why I stick with Finale.

What matters in reality is the finished product. Most players, customers, could care less what program you use as long as the finished product is a good. The same holds true for tuba playing as well!! How many different horns are pro tuba players playing on?

end of opinion

I use both. I would agree with what you said with Sibelius up through version 3. Version 4 is very different. And it can convert music files to the older Finale format.

LoyalTubist wrote:I use both. I would agree with what you said with Sibelius up through version 3. Version 4 is very different. And it can convert music files to the older Finale format.

Not that I have ever seen. You may be referring to the process of moving XML files from one program to the other, but it is a process and still needs quite a bit of cleanup after converting to XML and then moving to the other program.

XML is a very big step forward in moving notation from one program to another. Much better than MIDI, but it still has a way to go.

Sibelius 4 is much different than 3 (much imporved), but like Finale it has some limitations. I could make a list 20 pages long of issues with Finale!!

Most every program works that way. When I used to use ClarisWorks and coverted files to Microsoft Word, the paging was different. Hey, that's OK. It works.

I see that although the original poster had his question answered, this has again degenerated into a F vs S debate, and I can't see why. I have both. Neither is perfect, but I can do just about anything I want in either one, and make it look just about as good.

One huge advantage of Sibelius 4 I admit, is the time saved by its dynamic part layout. Spacing parts, page breaks, etc. are all automatic and only minor touchups are needed. The last composition I did in Finale took me almost as long to lay out the individual parts as it did to create the full score. I'm still finding out how to do things in Sibelius, so for now I'll keep both on my hard disk.

DonShirer wrote:I see that although the original poster had his question answered, this has again degenerated into a F vs S debate, and I can't see why. I have both. Neither is perfect, but I can do just about anything I want in either one, and make it look just about as good.

One huge advantage of Sibelius 4 I admit, is the time saved by its dynamic part layout. Spacing parts, page breaks, etc. are all automatic and only minor touchups are needed. The last composition I did in Finale took me almost as long to lay out the individual parts as it did to create the full score. I'm still finding out how to do things in Sibelius, so for now I'll keep both on my hard disk.

Didn't you just degeenrate it into a F vs. S debate by posting your second paragraph?

I think people should download both programs and try them both. See what works for what they are doing and make an educated choice!

Although completely irrelevant to the discussion, one thing in Sibelius that had me doing the Wayne's World "We're not worthy! We're not worthy!" chant in my mind for programing sophistication was when I evaluated Sibelius' ability to score real-time improvisation from a keyboard. It got the time signature right; followed the rubato all by itself; put the notes on the correct staff; no 32nd notes with 16th rests and ties all over place. It was just about perfect. And this was back a version or two. Some smart boys programmed that part of the thing.

For the record I have Finale 2001. Started with 2.0 on Windows 3.1 which was an abortion of a program (came on two floppies ... which I still have). Paid for two upgrades and figure the Finale folks had gotten enough of my money after that.