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You all know that as of about a year ago all of these manufacturers were bought by the Steinway Piano Company.

I think it's a lot like what General Motors did many years ago with Chevrolet (they were the original make, along with GMC trucks), Olds, Oakland (Pontiac), Cadillac, and Buick. All of those cars are pretty much the same vehicles... the more expensive brand names have a little more work put into them.

But you know, in 2004 they quit making Oldsmobiles. The cars were too much like Buicks and Pontiacs to make any difference. I am wondering which instrument brands will soon be phased out. If the current strike in Elkhart doesn't get the workers what they need, which brand will we lose?

bloke wrote:That would put a lot of mariachi bands out of business.

Nah, they'll just have to buy from Kanstul or Stomvi now

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Well.... the music instrument industry as we knew it twenty years ago has already gone by the wayside. I had the pleasure of calling the Conn-Selmer parts department today to purchase some slide tubes for a Conn 50H trigger trombone. Their first reaction was "oh my... that's an OLD one". They came up with the parts after searching stocks for two days. I ordered a set of valve caps for a Holton trumpet last June (2005) and finally received them in February. I don't know exactly where this is all going to end up, but it's obvious that Conn-Selmer/Steinway, in a very short time, won't be able to supply parts for anything other than current production horns. As far as off-shore production goes... THAT's been going on for over a decade now.

I agree with a previous poster... who cares As far as you trumpet fans are concerned... if you have a chance to get your hands on some GOOD Bach bells, you had better grab them now.

bloke wrote:

if you have a chance to get your hands on some GOOD Bach bells, you had better grab them now.

I don't think management is quite that stupid...

I don't know if people will be so stupid as to do the things you are talking about.

I know that in broadcasting the quality goes down as the profits go up.

Eleven years ago, I went to work in Southeast Asia to work. I returned in 1999. Before I left California, I bought some electronic items at Montgomery Ward, I bought shoes at Thom McAn, I bought some clothes at Fedco, and I bought some munchies for the wife and the kids for the long plane trip to Singapore at Alpha Beta. When I came back to California, all those stores were either out of business or months away from going out of business. Those were stores we never thought we could do without. But we adapt.

And as for mariachi bands, most of the bands you see in the streets of East Los Angeles soliciting for gigs on Friday and Saturday usually have the cheapest trumpets available.

bloke wrote:The last issues remaining with Chinese brass instruments aren't really workmanship issues. Rather, they are machine-related issues.

Golly, Joe--and just where are most of the machine tools being made nowadays?

Here's the typical scenario. The employer finds some employees who really know the business and tells them that they're really lucky because they're not going to get laid off right away--rather, they're going to supervise the setup of the operation in China--and then get laid off.

One thing that is quite obvious, the cyborg does not subscribe the Ed Deming philosophy and practice of business management.

Which is already starting to happen with pianos, like the Essex brand built to Steinway designs.

bloke wrote:Selmer already owns machinery that is specifically set up to make Stradivarius trumpets and trombones. The Chinese do not. However, there are obviously a lot of good craftsman in China, because their tool and die products are quite good.

Hmmm... That's news to me I've been away from the tooling business for about three years and unless things have dramatically improved, the Chinese would be the last folks on Earth to get an injection mold (or any other kind of tool) right the first time In over ten years of building secondary tooling for automotive molded parts, I've never seen a Chinese-built mold go into a press and make a good part the first time. I will however, agree with you on one point... there are indeed excellent craftsmen in China but their work will cost you just as much as comparable domestic work.

Correct. Have you ever tried to use a Chinese knock-off of a pair of Vise-Grip® pliers?

I'd like to point out that we get Bach Prelude trumpets that seem to be made in China... we just sold a new Bach Strad 72 trumpet made in the US... which one has valve problems including horrid threading?


We just got a "Bach" french horn (UMI) that has several dents and sloppy solder work... US made...

I'd stop saying that the Asian factories are going to start getting better, I'd say they're already there.

bloke wrote:

tuben wrote:Of the ones listed, my guess would be that Benge would be the first to go.

That would put a lot of mariachi bands out of business.

Aye Caramba....
that was my next idea for a band!!!!!

The enduring and sought after designs will continue.
take the trombone line for example

Conn 88H trombones will remain
Bach Strads will remain
King jazz bones will remain (i wish they'd bring back the bass bones)
unfortunately the Benge bones are gone already
Student level horns will probably end up being stenciled and cross bred, Conn and King student trombones already are. The Bach student models are still the same old Bundy designs.
Few will miss Holton trombones
Martin had the Urbie Horn, but they couldn't have sold too many at least not recently.

In the tuba dept. they really only have the Kings and the Conn.
Holton's Harvey Tuba never seemed to catch on (never played it so I can not comment on it)

Like everything else the brands will become more model specific and Conn-Selmer will become a "brand" of its own.
The botoom line is they will keep making what sells.
ken k

I'm looking forward to the day when trumpet players will be arguing which province of China made the best bells, and how the quality of build has dropped off ever since they moved production to Africa...