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I recently bought a used B&S f.it looks like a pt10 but does not say pt10 or even Parantucci on the bell. it just says B&S with the logo,the city of manufacture,and German Democratic Republic.it also has a small "CMC" engraved on it.It has progressively smaller bores through the valves with the 5th the smallest and the 4th the largest(5th at the top).it plays and sounds great but is obviously 20-30 yrs old in my estimation.anyone know the evolution of the pt10 model and how this one may fit in?One knowlegeable bloke seems to think its closer to a symphonie than a pt10.Resident genius?

MikeMason wrote:I recently bought a used B&S f.it looks like a pt10 but does not say pt10 or even Parantucci on the bell. it just says B&S with the logo,the city of manufacture,and German Democratic Republic.it also has a small "CMC" engraved on it.It has progressively smaller bores through the valves with the 5th the smallest and the 4th the largest(5th at the top).it plays and sounds great but is obviously 20-30 yrs old in my estimation.anyone know the evolution of the pt10 model and how this one may fit in?One knowlegeable bloke seems to think its closer to a symphonie than a pt10.Resident genius?

Sounds like my Symphonie, which predates the Parantucci influence, thus no PT-anything.

The main difference between mine and a PT-10 is that a PT-10 has the same bore in the 5th and 1st valves as in the 2nd, while the Symphonie has the same for 5 and 1 but those are smaller than 2 (which on both is smaller than 3, which is smaller than 4). The PT-10 also has a longer fifth valve (which the old Symphonie needs) and a different leadpipe.

The Parantucci objective in changing the leadpipe and 1st and 5th valve bores was apparently to make the low C blow more like a contrabass. But the PT-10's I've played miss some of the sound character of the Symphonie while not really making the low C any easier. And they seem to have more intonation issues. The sound on the new B&S F's is a little more generic as well. All that is just my opinion, of course.

Rick "wondering if yours has a finger or thumb-actuated fifth valve" Denney

You definitely have one of the older B&S F's! I have played on several of the PT-10/15's and for me, the older, pre-Perantucci B&S F's is where its at. Mine is 19 years old and still going strong. It is silverplated and is in pristine condition....the only work that has been done to it are slide stops on the 1st and 4th valves (which I don't use) and I recently had Mike Johnson replace the linkages with German Unibals to get it up to date.

The PT-10 has a larger bore throughout the valve cluster, with the 15 basically being the a 10 with a larger bell throat. Great instruments, but not for everyone.

I think many who have played the older B&S F tubas will agree they are far superior in intonation and quality of sound....if you know how to blow them. For many, the smaller bore presents a response problem in the low register....trying to honk it like an open CC tuba. But for players like myself, the larger PT-10/15 has a much more problematic scale.

Bottom line...if it works for you, then it's money well spent! BTW, they have supposedly re-released this small bore model as an Anniversary Model...anyone seen those in the US? I wonder how the new machine made horns compare to the older, handmade B&S horns.....

Rick,all 5 in right hand. here's a link to the ebay posting-http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1

MikeMason wrote:Rick,all 5 in right hand. here's a link to the ebay posting-http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1

Looks just like mine except mine has clocksprings, shaped paddles, and a left-thumb fifth. You'll be wanting to lengthen that fifth valve, but try the low C as 5-3 before you do. There are strategies for the fifth at its current length (which is mostly like a separately tunable F-tuba first valve, rather than a flat first which is the same length as the first valve on a C tuba).

But once I got used to the blow of this instrument down low, I found that I played C on 4 and used the fifth valve more rarely than I do on my Yamaha.

Don't make a final mouthpiece selection until you have tried the Mike Finn 4. That mouthpieces creates a more colorful and open sound on mine than any of the usual alternatives--including the PT-64.

The intonation is great on these, but it is more in your hands than it is with the Yamaha.

Rick "who loves the personality of the sound of these tubas, as well as their intonation and projection" Denney