How to bend a mouthpiece? (solution applied - new image)

[yohan]

I need to bend a spare mouthpiece (a Wick 3L, wich I never use anyway) for the purpose of saving my precious spine from too much strain while marching.

Do any of you people out there have any advice on how to do this without damage to the shank, or myself?

Best bet yet is to drill a hole with the diameter of the shank in a piece of wood, insert the mouthpiece firmly, put the piece of wood in a vice and start hitting it with a rubber malllet.

Would I benefit from heating the mouthpiece first? If so, how much?

(edit - july 3, 2006, edited title)

[yohan]

I know I would need to take care that the bend starts beyond the point on the shank where the mp leaves the leadpipe.

There is an indent on the mp where I intend to place the bend. (the image shows a bone mp, but the shape is essentially the same) http://www.slidebone.com/WickPics/DW488012CSmedium.JPG

A curved leadpipe extension is not an option, since I already have to struggle with my embochure/tuba/mp-combo playing flat.

[twoconnguy]

Why not try it with a Kelly lexan mouthpiece? You can buy one for $30 and heat it up with a hairdryer to bend it.

[yohan]

Now, there's a clever idea.

Thanks!

[corbasse]

The (quite good and famous) french horn player Pip Eastop did the same. Here's his page with ideas and inventions: http://www.pyp.f2s.com/framesets/inventionsframeset.htm

So yes, you basically put it in a vice and bang the s*^$ out of it....

[yohan]

So yes, you basically put it in a vice and bang the s*^$ out of it....

Which is what I did... with good results at first ... but then enthusiasm got the better of me ... which is why I will go buy myself a Kelly mp and shape it the way I want it.

I can't say I believe much in the tonal qualities there, but a plastic mp should be great for outdoors playing they say, and that's the only time I really need a bent mp.

Another clever thing is that I could put [edit] a Lexan mouthpiece [/edit] in the leadpipe, heat it and bend it right there, thus making sure I get the correct angle right away.

/Johan, not for a second mourning his now deceased DW mouthpiece

[Chuck(G)]

Assuming that you've got about a half-inch of spare throw on your main tuning slide, why not have someone modify a sousaphone tuning bit to angle things they way you'd like them?

[Bob Mosso]

Good luck, it won't want to bend where you want it to because the metal is thicker due to the narrow bore. If you heat it enough you'll destroy the plating and the heat will spread and it will likely still bend differently than you want. If you put it in the horn and try to bend it there you'll end up destroying the leadpipe/receiver (and likely where it attaches).

Take the _horn_ to a reputable repair person and have the leadpipe/receiver repositioned.

[yohan]

it won't want to bend where you want it to because the metal is thicker due to the narrow bore.

Correct, but the old DW mouthpiece had a notch perfectly in place where I wanted it to bend (see picture linked above) - it worked like a charm, until I got enthusiastic and wanted it to bend "just a little more... " - Which was quite a bit, I'd say more than 15 degrees.

If you put it in the horn and try to bend it there you'll end up destroying the leadpipe/receiver (and likely where it attaches).

I meant to do that with a Kelly mp, as suggested. This won't be a problem.

Take the _horn_ to a reputable repair person and have the leadpipe/receiver repositioned.

I could of course do that, but I am quite happy with the leadpipe as it is, and my only problem is during parade.

Assuming that you've got about a half-inch of spare throw on your main tuning slide

I don't.

[TubaRay]

I think bending a mouthpiece is likely a very bad idea. Why not simply insert a sousaphone bit? This may cause the pitch to be a bit too low(no pun intended), but you might have enough tuning slide to work with to correct the problem. That's where I would begin, anyway.

[iiipopes]

I guess we're all assuming that it is either not practical or not possible (not your horn) to adjust the receiver? Instead of bending the mouthpiece, I repositioned the receiver of my tuba at a slight upward angle for my slight overbite. The receiver would be much easier to deal with than the mouthpiece. In a similar manner to the mouthpiece in a vise, I took a length of 2X4, positioned it equally on the mouthpiece and the brace, and gave the end of the 2X4 a couple of sharp whacks with a hammer. It moved perfectly to where I needed it, with no damage to the instrument save a few flakes of lacquer off the curve of the brace, and compared to the rest of the horn, it probably made the brace look better by comparison!

[Chuck(G)]

I'm going suggest a bit of heresy here, but it's only a mouthpiece.

If you try to bend a mouthpiece, the cross-section will go from round to oval at the bend. That's why tuba builders fill tubes to be bent with lead, bending alloy, pitch or Slurpee juice. And you still have to run the bent tube though a draw ring to restore the round cross section.

I'd suggest that if you're dead set on this Uri Geller mouthpiece thing, that you start with a junker, then miter cut the shank at the apprpriate place, then silver-braze it into the position that works for you. I assume that the same can be done with a polycarbonate Kellyberg using methyl chloride solvent cement in place of silver braze, but I'd check with some plastics folks to make sure before you take a saw to the piece.

[GC]

Another way to bend a mouthpiece is to ship it through the post office in a bubble mailer.

<img src="http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/ ... MG0072.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting">

[Dan Schultz]

This might make the Darwin Awards!

[yohan]

... the cross-section will go from round to oval at the bend. That's why tuba builders fill tubes to be bent with lead, bending alloy, pitch or Slurpee juice. And you still have to run the bent tube though a draw ring to restore the round cross section....

I understand why this happens. Could you also explain what an oval vs. a round cross section would do to the properties of the instrument, both if the oval section is located in the mouthpiece and if it is later in the tubing, say in the leadpipe or after the valves.

[Chuck(G)]

[I understand why this happens. Could you also explain what an oval vs. a round cross section would do to the properties of the instrument, both if the oval section is located in the mouthpiece and if it is later in the tubing, say in the leadpipe or after the valves.

No, I really can't qualitatively say, never having squashed a mouthpiece shank. However, I think it's worth observing that the Conn short-stroke valves on the 20J are viewed as being acoustically inferior for their oval ports.

And I've never run across someone who asked me to squeeze the leadpipe on their instrument to an oval in the name of improving it.

So, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the effect of taking a round mouthpiece shank and making it oval isn't going to be an improvement.

[Art Hovey]

I believe that it could be done, but you would want to practice on a few junk mouthpieces first. Heating the metal to anneal it before bending is a good idea. You also might want to put it onto a lathe and remove some metal from the outside where you want it to bend. I would make a wooden jig to hold the cup firmly in a large vise, and rig up a steel pipe about 2 feet long to slip over the shank. It will need a tapered opening like a mouthpiece receiver. When that fits right, start pulling. It may or may not be necessary to fill the shank with molten lead (or solder) depending on how much you want to bend it. Go for it. Take some pictures and post them here.

[Chuck(G)]

I don't know if mouthpieces are made of ordinary yellow brass, say C260. It would make sense to make them of 353 or 360 free-machining brass--but maybe not.

If you've ever tried to bend that stuff, you already know tht it's very brittle--machines like a dream but will crack if bent.

Just a thought.

[yohan]

I don't know if mouthpieces are made of ordinary yellow brass, say C260. It would make sense to make them of 353 or 360 free-machining brass--but maybe not.

If you've ever tried to bend that stuff, you already know tht it's very brittle--machines like a dream but will crack if bent.
.

You're probably right, since I could bend the mouthpiece to say a little more than 10 degrees, before it snapped right off when I got eager to bend it just a wee bit more...

The material visible in the crack is fairly bright, almost white.

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

Chuck is on the right track.

Okay, this is how you do it. first the angle of the bend needs to be determined, divide the angle in half, make the cut through the waist or narrowest section of the mouthpiece with a fine blade jewelers saw, rotate the cup 180o and silver braze back together. I have performed this trick for a couple customers in the past and it works quite nicely. of course, the plating need to be removed before silver brazing is to be done and the piece will need to be re-plated afterward. Oh yeah, for best results with the cleaning up of the finish, it is a good idea to make a brass "C" collet that can hold the mouthpiece by the rim of the cup without damaging it while turning it in the lathe chuck. This technique, when performed correctly also helps avoid damage and distortion of the back-bore. it works very spiffy but you do need a few tools and some skills if you want a nice final product.


Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Seattle,Wa
www.oberloh.com