TubeNet

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:05 pm**

Practice, practice, and then practice some more. You need to get it so that you can play below that F. Then the F will not be the very bottom of your range and it will clean up quite a bit. I play scales down in that register (all others too) to clean up my intonation. Play the scales sowly but fast enough where you can still hear where each pitch should be (a 5th valve really helps). As for playing this note loud it takes a lot of air used very efficiently. When you use this note it is usually at the end of a piece or movement. The joy of playing this low is that all of the other instruments in the group can find their notes in your overtone series and this makes for a fantastic sound. The whole chord just sort of lites up. It helps if you have another tuba or bass trombone playing an octave above you.
Good luck, Phil

PS Be prepared for the folks that say that you can't even play that low etc. You know better.

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:06 pm**

thomaji wrote:am i just being a wuss or is the F below pedal c (7 ledger lines below bass clef stave) just too low?

It can sound good. I'm sure I can't explain it perfectly, but here are a few ideas how to make that F better, from how I'm working on my lower range now:

*keep your lips focused, don't let them go loose just because it's a low note.
*1)play the F an octave higher with a great sound,
2)keep playing the same note but change your fingering to that of the lower F,
3)then drop down an octave keeping that good sound and centered pitch. I start with G and go down to C or B at the moment (in which I don't mean to say all those notes sound good).
*play some music on that range. Take whatever you like to play an octave lower.
*I think after it sounds good and in tune it will be easier for you to play it lowder.

Good luck, hope I could help. I'm going back to practice

Udi

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:42 pm**

And how often you figure you'll NEED this note?

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:29 pm**

windshieldbug wrote:And how often you figure you'll NEED this note?

You really don't need to play at all but sticking a low pedal tone on the end of a piece is a lot of fun. Taking a slow quiet passage down real low (an octave or two) can be a ball too. Most of us play for fun not to fill a need. It helps to play music you know down one or two octaves so that you start to hear the pitches better and that you start to play musically in the very low registar.
Good luck, Phil

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:30 pm**

To answer your original question, yes you're being a wuss.

A) If you have a keyboard or a really cool tuner, get a drone going on so when you're trying to hit the note, you can still hear what it sounds like.

B) Practice x100. IMO it's more of a feeling sound than a hearing sound so focus on nailing the note and it'll come off as 'loud'

c) No idea what this means.

http://www.tuba101.net/dl.htm has a good low range excercise. I recommend taking it very slow and focus on your breathing.

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:46 pm**

Well, to start with, you're not really playing a 21 Hz F, at least not that so's anyone can hear the pure tone. If you don't believe me, find some PC audio spectrum analyzer software and a really good mic and see for yourself.

Musically, unless you have another tuba or bass filling in on the 4-ledger F an octave above you, it's not going to be very satisfying. It's just too distant from anything else being played at the same time to really harmonize.

The business of gratuitous octave-downing has its limits. My quintet recently performed the Gabrielli Canzon on the 12th tone (BTW, thanks for the organ tips, guys--it helped a lot

). It's scored for 2 trumpets, horn and two trombones. "No problem", says I, "I'll just take the 2nd trombone part an octave down and play it on tuba." It just doesn't work--the close 5 part harmonies sound like 4-part + tuba. Now, if we had a sextet, I could probably double the 2nd trombone down on tuba and it'd sound pretty good. But for much stuff, there just has to be a certain density of voices and taking one an octave away from where it should be just doesn't work. (BTW, I played the 2nd trombone part on euphonium).

My two cents' worth-your mileage may vary.

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:35 pm**

It sure is possible to play down there loudly, with a full sound , and in tune. And thereÂ´s lots of music where this will benefit the bandÂ´s sound greatly.
In our large concert band, we do this all the time:
two contrabass tubas playing the low tuba part as written (i.e. somewhere between C1 and C3) and one taking it down an octave wherever possible/musically fitting. ThatÂ´ll end up somewhere around F0.
Four bass tubas playing high tuba part or low part as written.

That ultra-low notes donÂ´t need to be that loud, by the way, to have that special effect on the bandÂ´s sound. You just need to produce frequencies that the higher instruments can surf on.

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:09 pm**

It's not likely you'll see music written that low very often. That being said, I find taking stuff down an octave just as moronic as trumpets playing up an octave. It usually sounds like S..T

You might want to do it while you are practicing at home but don't subject your ensemble, orchestra, or concert band to it.

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:04 pm**

IMHO, it's infinitely more important and useful to have a great low f and Eb(2 below the staff),and to be facile in that register.I have a pretty solid double low g,but only use it to impress my friends(and anoy everyone else

).

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:45 pm**

Boanerges wrote:Okay - all those who want to make sub-contra sounds with an instrument other than a bass drum or a large pipe organ will need to look into acquiring an Octobass or build one themselves.

Here's a website for an Octobass - the lowest note being C at 16 Hz:

http://www.xray.it/octo/

The site is in Italian so use Google's online translator.

Cheers,

Why bother? I can already play that pitch on my CC. You can really play that low if you PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As for those of you who don't believe try a bit more time in the practice room.
Phil

Cheers, Phil
Boanerges

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:02 pm**

TubaTinker wrote:It's not likely you'll see music written that low very often. That being said, I find taking stuff down an octave just as moronic as trumpets playing up an octave. It usually sounds like S..T You might want to do it while you are practicing at home but don't subject your ensemble, orchestra, or concert band to it.

Ditto what the Tinker said!!

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:06 pm**

At some point it just becomes Thut...thut...thut...thut...

Posted: **Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:56 pm**

Yes, for example the last note of a rather bombastic piece that has the whole range playing, and the sub contra note adds the last bit of texture, or an equally loud pedal building up to some really loud and/or really technical and/or fugal sounding section. Too much of the subcontra notes is like being made to eat a 1/2 inch thick slice of juicy roast beef at every meal, to the exclusion of other food until you finish the roast beef slice. The first couple of times are great, but by breakfast of the third day, if not sooner, it starts actually being nauseating.

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:10 am**

Extremely low notes have been used occasionally for special effects, e.g. Encounters II. But there are at least three tuba solos that have pedal F in the "melody:"

Hock from Homage to the Noble Grape by Goff Richards.

Beth Lodal's arrangement of Visions Fugitives by Prokofiev (listen to Gene Pokorny's recording).

Chuck Daellenbach's performance of Rossini's Largo al Factotum in the Canadian Brass video/DVD, "Home Movies" (not on the CD recording).

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:49 am**

DP wrote:Um, the frequency range for actual hearing varies, although the "complete audible range" is acknowledged to be 20-20,000 Hz, even a healthy young person can only hear up to 17-18 kHz. (actual ability to hear high frequencies drops with age: by age 55 men can't hear above 5 kHz and women above 12 kHz!) . . . .

I would qualify that a bit. The threshhold sensitivity to perceive higher frequencies drops and the volume required increases. We still hear the pitches if there is enough volume behind them.

DP wrote: . . . . Women tend to have better audio hearing at high frequencies, especially after 25 years of age or so. The ear's sensitivity also varies significantly with frequency.

Men have been in noisy, industrial jobs more than women. Industry is where a lot of hearing loss occurs. Rosie the Riveter probably had hearing loss equal to that of the men she worked alongside.

I spent many years in machine shops and factories, and have upper-frequency losses. My last factory job, which fortunately was for the summer only between undergrad and grad school, was as a tool and die maker in a forge factory. They forged items ranging in size from rail car wheels on down, and the noise was horrible. I had a ringing (tinnuity) for years, and now my audio charts show a high frequency hearing loss. I can still hear, but only when the volume is turned up.

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:36 am**

Super low notes are great on the last note of a piece. They emphasize, impress and rattle the walls if you don't have to rush them.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:29 am**

tuben wrote:Another point to consider is the other orchestration at the time. If you're playing with any sort of rolling percussion (timpani, snare, bass drum, etc), then your nice pedal note, no matter how loud is likely to be covered by the drum.

Robert I. Coulter

Not if you're playing thru my P.A. system!

Posted: **Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:43 am**

I had a terrible illness some ten years ago that made about most of my teeth fall out. But I never stopped playing the tuba and it hasn't really affected my playing--except for low notes. If I have to play a piece with a lot of low notes, I have to take out my lower plate and I can actually play louder. I still have all my incisors, so mouthpiece placement has never been a problem. Just, if you just saw me play a concert and we were doing Benjamin Britten's Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra, please allow me to excuse myself to take care of my mouth before I speak to you. Thanks.

TubeNet

REALLY LOW

Re: REALLY LOW