Best Jazz Tuba

[circusboy]

I'm just wondering what you all think would be the best tuba for playing jazz.

That's straight-ahead jazz, not dixieland.

Please don't say "The one in the hands of [insert favorite jazz tubist's name here]."

I'm thinking that agility/nimbleness might be the most important feature. You?

Bob Stewart plays a Yam 621 F. Howard Johnson presumably plays that new MW 4/4 Bb with pistons on top and his name on it. What do/would you play?

[Bill Troiano]

I use my Yammy 621 CC for trad. jazz ( dixie) and when I get to jam with rock and jazz groups. It's light, nimble, has good pitch, and puts out a big full sound for a small horn. The downside, I find, is the low register can get blatty, and the valve cluster angle can be a pain in the wrist. I get around that by not using the thumb ring and keeping my thumb wherever it feels comfortable at the time. All around, it's a great little horn.

[jon112780]

Well, one professional I know said 'play with the horn you are the most comfortable(or familiar) with'. For most people here in the states(both students and professionals alike), I would venture to guess this would probably a CC tuba; but in other countries, that might be an F (Europe) or an Eb (Great Britian)...
I would be interested to see what different tubas (in a particular key) are dominent in the jazz world; and in which areas of the globe. Anybody else?

[Stefan Kac]

I've grown to love the YFB-621 for jazz playing because it is not only great for flexibility and high stuff but also for walking bass lines. I'm actually planning to switch horns soon, but for non-jazz-related reasons. I did get to try the new Howard Johnson model last week; if I was still interested in playing BBb, that would probably be my choice.

BTW, I am am reasonably certain that Bob Stewart plays the YCB-621, not the F.

[Shockwave]

Sousaphones are much better for jazz than tubas. There's nothing "jazzy" about a player hiding behind and hugging an instrument that points away from the audience. The best jazz sousaphone I've found is a Pan American Eb, a slightly smaller .620 bore version of a Conn 26k. It has a great solo sound, great intonation, and can still pump out a solid bass line.

-Eric

[Art Hovey]

As you can see from the replies above, there are at least as many "best jazz tubas" as there are jazz tuba players, and perhaps more. Your question implies a certain uniformity in the requirements of jazz artists which simply does not exist. In jazz we celebrate the individual differences between musicians. What I look for in a tuba will be completely different from what the next guy looks for; I won't want to sound like him, and he or she won't want to sound like me. The only thing we all want is an instrument that we can be comfortable with.

[Stefan Kac]

There's nothing "jazzy" about a player hiding behind and hugging an instrument that points away from the audience.

Most musicians I know choose their equipment based on how they want to sound, not how they want to look. This is certainly not unique either to jazz or to tuba.

[Dan Schultz]

I like my old King 1235 (Eb) bell-front front-action 4V. Big sound but nimble.

[KentEshelman]

I'm fond of the YFB-621. I agree with the original poster that agility/nimbleness (and along with those, clarity) are primary concerns for straight-ahead jazz soloing. In my opinion it's hard to play fast be-bop lines on any tuba, let alone a big one. I own a 621 and an 822. I love the breadth of sound of the 822, but I find myself always using the 621 for jazz because I'd rather have easier clarity in fast passages than a broader sound.

When I recorded a jazz tuba CD (Life Is Good; www.pkorecords.com/cds/lifegood/lifegood.htm) two years ago I used the 621 for 6 tracks and the 822 for two slower tracks for which I wanted the broader sound and didn't need to play fast be-bop lines.

I'm not saying the Yamaha 621 is THE best jazz tuba; just that I like it.

Kent Eshelman

[Thomas Maurice Booth]

How about the new MW Howard Johnson tuba.

TMB

[Tom Holtz]

If I'm not the bass player, such as playing in a big band horn section or being featured up front--YFB 621.

If I'm on a Buck Creek JB gig, Besson 983.

Most trad bands have a big Bb bell-front or sousaphone in back. For many folks, this is a better horn than an upright Eb. A *much* better horn. For what I do, the 983 is superb. It is definitely not for everyone. I know of only one other tuba player on the festival circuit using an Eb. Everyone else brings a Bb with the bell pointing forward, whether it's a tuba or sousie. You can really drive the bus with your bell pointing forward.

All this is moot if you're going to be improvising a lot--you take the horn where your fingers and brain are most comfortable. If you won't be soloing or it'll be infrequent at most, then you can start splitting hairs over horn choice.

[Donn]

A couple observations about helicons, sousaphones, Eb.

My (Czech) Eb helicon faces about the same direction as a front valve "tuba."

I get a clearer, more focused sound on it than my big Bb sousaphone, down to B below the staff. The F version is smaller with the same .720 bore and quite a bit brighter, in the sense that all the noises being made at the small end are transmitted faithfully to the big end.

An Eb sousaphone with 4 valves would be a lot better than one with 3. "Great false tones", my ***.

[circusboy]

Thanks for the responses so far.

I wasn't entirely clear in my first post: I intended the discussion to be about up front solo and improvisational playing--perhaps with a bit of walking when others take the lead.

So far, the favorite for this specific work seems to be the YFB 621. How about the MW 182? The Firebird? Any others?

[Rick Denney]

If I'm not the bass player, such as playing in a big band horn section or being featured up front--YFB 621.

If I'm on a Buck Creek JB gig, Besson 983.

The last couple times you've played in the jam session at the Army conference, you've played what looks to me like an Eb helicon. You get a kick-*** sound from that helicon that I would have thought perfect for Buck Creek. Maybe it's the beer I'm hearing.

Rick "who has never seen the same horn used by more than one jazz player" Denney

[windshieldbug]

I think a helicon would be ideal; directional if you want it, a bell up sound (even though it isn't), and easy to carry and have good audience view while you're playing (you're not behind a trash can), plus comes in any bore/key you need.

[Tom Holtz]

The last couple times you've played in the jam session at the Army conference, you've played what looks to me like an Eb helicon. You get a kick-*** sound from that helicon that I would have thought perfect for Buck Creek. Maybe it's the beer I'm hearing.

It's great with Buck Creek, and it's a 4-valve Eb helicon, which is a great compromise between small and nimble (YFB-621) and directional output (sousie). Thank you, Dillon Music. It's not so great as far as the airlines are concerned. The trunk I have for that old bird is ENORMOUS, and well over every weight limit everywhere. Thus, the 983. The helicon comes to the local stuff, the 983 goes on the road.

I intended the discussion to be about up front solo and improvisational playing--perhaps with a bit of walking when others take the lead.

I've used my YFB-621 in this sort of role with great success. The 983 is great for solos, and just big enough to walk a bass line--for my tastes, anyway. It's a super all-duty horn in any idiom.

Don't worry so much about "The Sound" when you're thinking about equipment for fronting a jazz group. A YFB-621 or similar tuba is only small and bright when compared to other tubas, usually BATs, 'cuz that's what we do, 'cuz we're dorks. Get it in front of a group of other instruments. You'll find out IT'S STILL A TUBA. It'll sound big and logey and tubby, and it's gonna tick you off.

[Rick Denney]

...It's not so great as far as the airlines are concerned. The trunk I have for that old bird is ENORMOUS, and well over every weight limit everywhere. Thus, the 983. The helicon comes to the local stuff, the 983 goes on the road.

Yes, I'd forgotten when Frank bought a 621 BBb because it was easy to carry to the gigs along with his trombone. He made that decision after fooling around with my 621F at a brass quintet rehearsal. Being able to get it on the airplane easily was a big deal--Buck Creek does a lot of gigs on the road (and on cruise ships, etc.). I think for local gigs he prefers his King, but he may not bring a tuba at all when you are playing in the group.

But the 621 BBb isn't as good a use of that size as is the F. Frank described it pretty well when he said there is a ceiling beyond which you cannot go, and beyond that you have to use a shallow mouthpiece and go trombone-like. But there is a different strategy when playing into microphones, and the limitations of a small tuba no longer really matter that much.

I played my 621F in the TubaMeisters, and really appreciated the clarity and focus that was possible with that instrument in a tuba quartet. And we rarely had microphones. Even compared to other tubas and euphoniums, it worked quite well, as long as you stayed below the ceiling.

But it won't carry the load when used on the high part in a wind ensemble or concert band. I kept bumping my head in that application.

Rick "who plays a B&S in large ensembles" Denney

[Onebaplayer]

The firebird is a six valve rotor. I think this would prove a bit cumbersome for jazz. Seems to me that most jazz guys (and most of the other tubas discussed in this topic) prefer piston horns for their flexibility. If you want a sound similar to the firebird (a big F tuba) you should check out the Gronitz PF 125

[circusboy]

Seems to me that most jazz guys (and most of the other tubas discussed in this topic) prefer piston horns for their flexibility.

You really think that pistons are that much more nimble than rotors? Flexible in some other way as well?

I thought rotors were favored by, e.g., some baroque players. But then my thinking could be wrong . . . .

[Tom Holtz]

But the 621 BBb isn't as good a use of that size as is the F. Frank described it pretty well when he said there is a ceiling beyond which you cannot go, and beyond that you have to use a shallow mouthpiece and go trombone-like.

Exactly. The 621 chassis makes a great F tuba, but it's so limited when you build a CC or BBb on it, I can't imagine anyone using one outside of grade school. Of course, Chuck Dallenbach made his 621 CC sing and dance and blow our minds with the Canadian Brass, but that's because he's the man and we all suck. I love the agility and clarity on the 621 F, and it's much fun in a big band, both out front, and with the bone section.

Since Frank is using an Eb for his brass band stuff, he just borrows the Besson when he's off to a jam session on the cruise ship. He's knows my horn well, he sold it to me!