Has anyone tried the .........???????? at ITEC???

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:14 pm

Anyone have a chance to play the Miraphone 1261 Ambassador Eb tuba at ITEC this past week? If so what did ya think? I was pretty amazed by the size and sweetness of sound, as well as the excellent intonation. If you have not tried one I highly reccomend you do, especially if you are in the market for an Eb or just looking for an all around horn in a nice 3+1 configuration. This horn easily has enough sound to be an everyday instrument as well as having plenty of virtuosic charecteristics as well.....

JCradler · Post by **JCradler** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:32 am

Fabulous tuba, big for an eefer, but fabulous. If you need an all-arounder, that's a great candidate. I think they said it would be sold under a different model number when it hits these shores, #7000, maybe? No word on price. Mighty different from the Norwegian Star.
Tried the 1291 and 1292 back to back. Maybe it was the guy blasting out excerpts next to me, but I wasn't finding much difference. Maybe more time would tell. Miraphone also had a piston F prototype there, lots of potential.

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:34 am

Yeah the 1261 will have the designations M7000 Ambassador to distinguish it from the original 1261 - It certainly is different from the Norwegian Star. I believe pricing will be around $5800 or so.

The piston F proto was also very interesting and seems to have quite a bit of potential in it

T. J. Ricer · Post by **T. J. Ricer** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:09 pm

Not to turn the topic of conversation, but did anyone get to try out the Miraphone Norwegian Star rotary Eb? Are these horns in production yet? Opinions? I've been excited to have a rotary option for Eb players since I first heard about these (but that's been quite a while ago, now).

--T. J.

JCradler · Post by **JCradler** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:41 pm

Yes,
the Norwegian Star was there. It behaves and blows like a rotary F tuba. Very light and agile, a big contrast to the Ambassador(which was remarkably agile for it's size). Both great, but very different. I think they're available now, if not, soon.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:18 pm

It's pretty clear to me that to get out of this "horn du jour" mindset, we're going to have to do something drastic.

How about a component-style tuba? We already have component mouthpieces. Select your bell, valveset, leadpipe and key and purchase the screw-togehter (tapered fittings, maybe?) bits and buld your own insrument...

The manufacturers will clean up, selling #4526 rotary valvesets and #2335 20" silver-plated bell...

Richard Murrow · Post by **Richard Murrow** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:25 pm

John,

It was good to see you at ITEC. I'm really glad to hear that you liked both EEb's so much, especially since the Ambassador you played is my personal horn and not one of the show display instruments. Both the N. Star and the Ambassador are currently available. I would suggest that if anyone is interested that they contact Dillon or BW. Also, the Ambassador Euphonium is available. It has the same characteristics as the Ambassador tuba. I agree with you about the versatility of the Ambassador EEb, it is really a joy to play.

Richard Murrow
Texas Christian University
Miraphone Corporation

charlieJ · Post by **charlieJ** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:33 pm

I'm a lifetime (almost 40 years) Eb player with the 3+1 comp Brit style tuba. I played both Rich's brass 1261 and Markus Theinert's silver 1261. A remarkable instrument in that it has a very full sound and both horns had vey similar playing characteristics. There was some slightly noticable resistance in the peddle area common to compers, and the 1261 is somewhat heavier than its Besson or Yamaha counterpart. Excellent intonation across the range and smooth valve action. The tonal qualities are more full than its competition which would make it a good choice for symphonic work, as well as an all purpose horn. Its tone really must be heard to be believed - Miraphone has a success with this horn. The Norwegian Star is a totally different instrument and really can't be compared to the 1261, as it is more of a F style tube (though it does play wonderfully). When I was at ITEC I played every Eb in the house I could find, including the 2 Nirschl Eb's, a PT-22, 2 MW2141's, a Yamaha 632, 2 Willson 3400s, the Norwegian Star 283 (which I was looking to buy), the Darylan, a Besson 981, and the 2 Miraphone 1261's. The 1261 and the Besson 981 stood out to me for my needs - one tuba to do everything. Well, the Nirschl's were cool but at around $16k they were out of my price range. I returned to only play the 1261 and 981 and walked out with the 981 - it was close but this was the best Besson I had ever played (I've played/owned many), despite reports of later Bessons having poor playing qualities. However, I would heartily recommend the 1261 to any Eb player as an excellent instrument for almost any venue. My thanks again to Rich and Markus for allowing me to play their fine instruments!!

JCradler · Post by **JCradler** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:58 am

The piston F was a 4+1rt setup, like we see all the time. It responded quite well below the staff and had acceptable intonation(no, I did not have a tuner with me). It was shaped a bit like the 2182MW, maybe a bit bigger(?). Not as nimble/lively as a 281 or 181, but I suspect that is among the things they will work on in development. Interesting wrap in the 4th valve slide; there was an extra loop coming out of the cluster. I asked about it and Richard explained how he felt this may actually help the low range response.

T. J. Ricer · Post by **T. J. Ricer** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:28 pm

charlieJ wrote:including the 2 Nirschl Eb's, . Well, the Nirschl's were cool but at around $16k they were out of my price range. . quote]

Does this mean that the Nirschl horns are back in production? I played one back at Custom Music (~2000, maybe) and just loved it. They wouldn't sell it to me at the time (because it was their only show model?!?) and I later heard that only two were ever made. Does anyone know if these are the same as those original Nirschl Ebs? Is Nirschl now producing out of the Kalison factory that it was reported he purchased? Is he no longer working for Besson? Too many questions?

Also. . .
it is more of a F style tube

It behaves and blows like a rotary F tuba

Does this mean that the low C and D are squirrely or does this mean it has a directional penetrating sound? I like the more cylindrical/saxhorn singing type sound of rotary F tubas, but won't deal with the pitch and response problems of most every F tuba I've ever played.

thanks for your opinions,
T. J.

JCradler · Post by **JCradler** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:48 pm

"Does this mean that the low C and D are squirrely or does this mean it has a directional penetrating sound? I like the more cylindrical/saxhorn singing type sound of rotary F tubas, but won't deal with the pitch and response problems of most every F tuba I've ever played. "

I don't remember the low range being that squirrely, I spent most of my time with it in and above the staff. As the for the saxhorn sound, well, yes it sounds like any saxhorn you'd find in any American ensemble.

Seriously, though, it sounds like a German rotary F, just in Eb. I've never heard, much less seen live, a saxhorn.

Richard Murrow · Post by **Richard Murrow** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:49 pm

"I like the more cylindrical/saxhorn singing type sound of rotary F tubas, but won't deal with the pitch and response problems of most every F tuba I've ever played."

T.J., all of the Saxhorns that I have read about or seen were top action piston valve, right facing bell instruments and fairly conical, very similar in appearance to our modern day euphonium. I believe this was an intentional design by Mr. Sax to avoid problems with the patent description on the original German design which was a left facing, front action valve instrument, pitched in F. Sax also built the first instruments in Eb and Bb as another way of avoiding patent problems.

If your questions were about the Miraphone prototype F, everyone who played it commented about how solid the low register was(yes, even the D, Db, C, & B). If you are asking about the Ambassador EEb, then there is definitely no problem with it. It has a very big, centered low register.

charlieJ · Post by **charlieJ** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:26 pm

Does this mean that the Nirschl horns are back in production?

These are custom made to order, not really in production. Fork out the $$, and it'll be ready in about 3 months from what I was told by the master himself.

Does anyone know if these are the same as those original Nirschl Ebs?
The first Eb is just like the WN20 at Custom way back. The second is a Besson knock-off.

Is Nirschl now producing out of the Kalison factory that it was reported he purchased?

Sounded to me like they are being made just south of Munich.

Is he no longer working for Besson?
They have parted ways after 5 years.

Too many questions?
Nope - it was a blast playing all these wonderful tubas!

Here's pic of the Nirschl Ebs (sorry about the quality, I was shaking with glee....) <br>
<img src="http://www.nantucketwoodworker.com/imag ... chl_eb.jpg">

[/img]

jbeish · Post by **jbeish** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:34 am

Was the new Meinl 6450 available for play test? Did anyone get a chance to spend anytime with it? Thoughts?

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:21 am

Meinl Weston was not able to have a completed 6450 for the show, However Alan Baer while there did have his for people to play test - I highly reccomend you try one if you are in the market for a larger sized horn. They will hopefully be available in the next 2-4 months.

T. J. Ricer · Post by **T. J. Ricer** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:17 am

Thanks for the info guys and sorry for my confusion. . .

I've always called the Germanic rotary instruments (like Alexander and the Mirafone 186) "saxhorn style" and the big piston American (York, Conn, Holton) horns "contrabugle style." By "less conical/more cylindrical," I mean the German horns tend to have bigger bores, but then by the bows and bell are not as big as the smaller bored and "more conical/less cylindrical" American style horns which start smaller and get bigger more rapidly. . . does that thinking make sense?

Is there a standard wording for these differences?

American vs. German??
more Conical vs. more Cylindrical??
Contrabugle style vs. Saxhorn style??
Any other thoughts?

Are all of these equally inaccurate? Where's a linguist when I need one?

thanks,
--T. J.

TubeNet

Has anyone tried the .........???????? at ITEC???

Has anyone tried the .........???????? at ITEC???

Norweigan Star