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My community band will be playing a piece called "Broad Stripes and Bright Stars, a Fantasy on Early American Airs" by Robert Longfield. The National Anthem appears very strongly in various forms throughout the piece and I'm wondering if the audience will be feeling the urge to stand upon hearing it. Would it be appropriate to announce before playing the piece that they should remain seated since it is part of a concert piece? Or, should they stand?

van wrote:My community band will be playing a piece called "Broad Stripes and Bright Stars, a Fantasy on Early American Airs" by Robert Longfield. The National Anthem appears very strongly in various forms throughout the piece and I'm wondering if the audience will be feeling the urge to stand upon hearing it. Would it be appropriate to announce before playing the piece that they should remain seated since it is part of a concert piece? Or, should they stand?

They should stay seated. Variations or derivatives of the National Anthem are not themselves the National Anthem, any more than stage bunting with stars and stripes is the U.S. flag.

If the whole work is quoted verbatim, then the composer/arranger needs to think of something new to do. But I think a practical test is whether the words could be sung straight through, and I seriously doubt that is the case.

Instead of an announcement, which gives it more attention than it deserves, the program that your band prints should include a statement that the audiences should remain seated even though portions of the Star-Spangled Banner appear during the work.

Rick "not basing this on official protocol but on common sense" Denney

I played this exact piece two days ago. Our announcer said that the National Anthem was very strong throughout, and even had our guest singer sing the part when it comes through the strongest, (the singer was there because there is a different guest singer and instrumental soloist each week.) When that part came up, (in the second page about a quarter of the way down,) the crowd intuitively stood up. But then again, that's just what my local band did. Your's may differ.

Aaron "Tubafatness" Hynds

What would you do if you had a flag that was cut up and sewn back together in a different arrangement, and had quilted symbols of non flag type things on it? How high would you fly it? would it depend on what percentage of the flag was the real Stars and Stripes? Maybe all the people should crouch and put their hand over their left ear.

Sorry, maybe thats a little too sarcastic, but I just have my own views on what people do with things that (IMHO) shouldn't be messed with. There are plenty of patriotic things you can quote that are very recognizeable without taking the actual anthem. Especially if it has enough of the song in it to actually sing a good chunk of it. So I'd stay seated and probably have a dropped jaw from hearing that. Then again, many composers have gained recognition by doing things that seem outrageous and offensive to the general public. Regardless, I don't think you should have to give an announcement. If people stand, let them be like the guy that claps between movements.

Beyond a mention in the program, I believe verbally instructing an audience about how to react is bound to end in dissappointment.
The audience is there to relax and be entertained and probably prefer their reactions to be appropriate and natural.

Rick Denney wrote:

van wrote:Would it be appropriate to announce before playing the piece that they should remain seated since it is part of a concert piece?

the program that your band prints should include a statement that the audiences should remain seated...

Rick "not basing this on official protocol but on common sense" Denney

My community band does not even use printed programs for outdoor, night time concerts.

Maybe they should just sing the original words to the tune that was selected for use as our national anthem:

To Anacreon in Heav'n, where he sat in full glee,
A few Sons of Harmony sent a petition;
That he their Inspirer and Patron wou'd be;
When this answer arrived from the Jolly Old Grecian;
"Voice, Fiddle, and Flute,
No longer be mute,
I'll lend you my name and inspire you to boot,
And besides I'll instruct you like me, to intwine,
The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."

The news through Olympus immediately flew;
When Old Thunder pretended to give himself airs.
If these Mortals are suffered their scheme to pursue,
The Devil, a Goddess, will stay above stairs.
"Hark," already they cry,
"In transports of joy,
Away to the Sons of Anacreon we'll fly.
And besides I'll instruct you like me, to intwine,
The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine.

The Yellow-Haired God and his nine lusty Maids,
From Helion's banks will incontinent flee,
Idalia will boast but of tenantless Shades,
And the bi-forked hill a mere desert will be.
My Thunder no fear on't,
Shall soon do it's errand,
And damme I'll swing the Ringleaders I warrant,
I'll trim the young dogs, for thus daring to twine,
The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."

Apollo rose up and said, "Pry'thee ne'er quarrel,
Good sing of the Gods with my Vot'ries below:
Your Thunder is useless"--then showing his laurel,
Cry'd "Sic evitable fulmen" you know!
"Then over each head
My laurels I'll spread
So my sons from your Crackers no mischief shall dread,
While snug in their clubroom, they jovially twine,
The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine.'

Next Momus got up with his risible Phiz
And swore with Apollo he'd cheerfully join--
'The full tide of Harmony still shall be his,
But the Song, and the Catch, and the Laugh,
shall be mine.
Then Jove be not jealous
Of these honest fellows,"
Cry'd Jove, "We relent since the truth you now tell us;
And swear by Old Styx, that they long shall intwine,
The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."

Ye Sons of Anacreon then join hand in hand;
Preserve Unanimity, Friendship, and Love!
'Tis yours to support what's so happily plann'd;
You've the sanction of Gods, and the Fiat of Jove.
While thus we agree,
Our toast let it be:
"May our Club flourish Happy, United, and Free!
And long may the Sons of Anacreon intwine,
The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."

tubatooter1940 wrote:Beyond a mention in the program, I believe verbally instructing an audience about how to react is bound to end in dissappointment.
The audience is there to relax and be entertained and probably prefer their reactions to be appropriate and natural.

I definitely agree. I remember one time a H.S. band director told the audience (of which I was a part of) to not clap between the movements of Holst's Second Suite in F. Something about that really ticked me off (that they were instructing us on how to enjoy the music, not that I would have clapped between movements anyways) and I really didn't end up enjoying it as much as I could have.

I think a basic explanation of what the piece is, that it is a "theme and variations" based on the national anthem. I wouldn't mention anything about whether or not they should sit or stand.

Carroll wrote:My community band does not even use printed programs for outdoor, night time concerts.

In that case, let people figure it out for themselves. They either will or they won't. I hope you don't have a singer, but if you do, everyone's gonna stand, and be confused when the song doesn't finish, and then be annoyed that you made them stand unnecessarily or that you chopped up the national anthem. That may happen anyway, but you'll annoy more people by making an announcement, unless the director is better at schmoozing an audience than choosing music.

Rick "wondering that the Star-Spangled Banner is so musically rich that it needs variations" Denney

OK. In addition to all the other worthless trivia I know, which does include some minutiae regarding performance protocol, and being a cub scout volunteer den leader, which includes teaching flag etiquette, and since it is fresh on my mind with Flag Day (June 14 for those of you who don't know) and Independence Day both just recently passed, here it is:

If the Star Spangled Banner is announced and played as such, it is the duty of the announcer to say something like, "Please rise and join in the National Anthem." Now, here's the tricky part. If there is an American flag present, face the flag. Those in uniform, salute. Those in civilian clothes, put your right hand over your heart. Sing with if you can. If no American flag is present, stand at attention towards the music and sing if you can.

This is federal statute: Title 36 United States Code section 301

For a summary: http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

If it is not announced and played as such, as excerpts woven into another piece, as Rick said, it is nothing more than the same as bunting decoration. Only if it is announced as such and played in its entirety so at least the first verse can be sung with (whether or not it actually is) is it considered the National Anthem with the rules of etiquette and decorum applicable.

I played it last night and into the second page (tuba part) where the Anthem is clearly present, the entire audience just stood up. The meter shifts between 3 and 4, but it's clearly our Anthem.

Sounds like a piece of music that's generally confusing to audiences, where e'er it be played.

I know that the original poster doesn't have a choice in this, but I think it wouldn't hurt for musicians (and especially bandleaders) to take this out of their repertoire. Play the National Anthem or play something else.

I hear "Stars and Stripes Forever" can be a real crowd-pleaser -- or maybe "In-a-gadda-da-vida."

circusboy wrote:or maybe "In-a-gadda-da-vida."

OK, now I have a protocol question: in you play In-a-gadda-da-vida, does one have to do the entire 25-minute original version, or can one just do the song?

The 25 minute version IS the song.

Of course, one time for a college party, I respliced in the six-minute drum solo enough times so that the song filled a 45-minute side of a cassette. No one noticed. Must've been a pretty good party.

Now THAT'S scary!!!

(Tha-Tum! tum-tum-tum-tum-tum-tum-tum Tha-Tum! tum-tum-tum-tum-tum-tum-tum, Tha-Tum, Tum, Ta-tum, Thata-tata-tata Ta-Tum! ... )

windshieldbug wrote:

circusboy wrote:or maybe "In-a-gadda-da-vida."

OK, now I have a protocol question: in you play In-a-gadda-da-vida, does one have to do the entire 25-minute original version, or can one just do the song?

The TubaMeisters version is about three minutes. But then the TubaMeisters don't have a drummer.

Rick "can you say 'polka'?" Denney

Thanks for all the help on this. I think I will make a copy of the posts (maybe not all) and give it to our director. As a former tuba performance major (who doesn't spend much time on the internet with a full time job and five schoolage kids), I'm sure he will appreciate the inputs.

For my benefit what is "In-a-gada-da vida". I'm sure I'll say "duh" when I find out but right now I'm in the dark. I went to a small all-male (at that time) engineering school in the late 50's so you might have to excuse my faulty memory, lack of sophistication and/or onset of Alzheimers.

van wrote:For my benefit what is "In-a-gada-da vida". I'm sure I'll say "duh" when I find out but right now I'm in the dark.

The time: 1968

If you really remember it, you weren't there.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=am ... j4ea104xh7

van wrote:For my benefit what is "In-a-gada-da-vida"

It was a 1968 LP album made by Iron Butterfly. The whole B side was a tune called "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" that contained one of the most simplistic drum solos ever recorded. Iron Butterfly was pre-grunge, and the insrumentation included guitars and an electric organ. Oh, those days...

previous post -

In-a-gada-da-vida

I guess I won't say "duh". I can honestly say I have never heard it. I was 30 years old in 1968 and immersed in raising a family, being a slide-rule toting aerospace engineer and shunning heathen music for "The Old Rugged Cross" and the real "In the Garden". What else did I miss?