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I have recently purchased a raw brass instrument and really don't know what I need to do (or don't need to do) to take care of it. I'm sorry, this is going to be very basic, but I have no idea:

--Are green spots something I should worry about?

--Is there a danger of green spots becoming something I should worry about?

--There has been some discussion on this previously, but did we ever reach a consensus as to the benefits/dangers of polishing (or over-polishing, I should say)?

--Are there any other things to know that I don't even know to ask?

Thank you all very much -- I appreciate the time and input.

You might want to occasionally clean it. Just get a wet rag and wipe it down. You may need to rub away a bit at some of the dirtiest spots (ie those green spots). I find bare brass can get quite dirty over time, and I love the feel of it when it is clean (much more than the feel of lacquer/silver).

Now, by polishing, do you mean taking Brasso or something like to it? Sure, it makes it nice and shiny, but it goes back to patina real soon. I suggest taking something like Brasso to it ONCE (or twice if the first time did not get it all) and then allow it to "go patina." This way the patina will be even throughout the horn. Trust me, when you polish it (with Brasso) you will understand why you will only want to do it once.

Cleaning this bugle can take me at least an hour and a half . I wouldn't want to do a tuba . I keep this bugle in a airtight ziplock bag now . I haven't had to take the Brasso to it in 4 months now .

Wouldn’t want to masquerade as Joe S, but then we happen to agree on a few matters:

Leave raw brass alone! The brownish patina is the possibly best protection it may get.

However green spots are dangerous, as they potentially will cause severe loss of mass to the brass, maybe ending up in a hole. I have an old F tuba with Berliner Pumpen, which has a large hole of several square inches in the side of the bottom bow due to bad maintenance. I bought it well aware of that fact, but I needed it for documentation of the Berliner Pumpen.

I agree with removing green spots with a moistened soft rag. But it should be moistened with valve oil or industrial spirits much rather than water. Four Roses or Johnny Walker might do the job, but I never tried.

One rather should seek the reason for green spots. Bad water draining? Leaky water valves? Leaky embouchure?

If you by accident get dents or creases in an old bell, it will be necessary to polish the bell first to avoid undesired depressions in the metal when rolling out the mishaps. But elsewise let the surface alone.

The most harmful thing a brass instrument ever may be exposed to is a thorough and “consciousâ€

Try wiping the instrument with some Lemon Pledge after you've played it to remove any corrosive skin oils. A coat of wax should keep the rest of the instrument looking pretty nice.

I'm currently in the process of polishing my raw brass horn. (Before I bring it in for ultrasonic / chem cleaning.) It's the first time I will have fully polished it since I got it. I'm going to do my best to get an even patina and then maybe never polish it again.

The Rolite Metal Polish I'm using seems to do a good job, and it's much faster than brasso. I didn't buy it from this site, but this is what the packaging looks like: http://www.topoftheline.com/rolmetpol1.html

One other thing I'm considering is wrapping the horn with leather in the areas I rest my hand. My hands (especially the left) turn a bit green after playing for an hour or so.

Leather is pure poison to brass instruments, if it has not been tanned in a way making it free of acid.

And then leather by its very nature always will be porous. The danger is, that it will transport your skin acids down to the brass anyway.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

That's good to know. Is there some alternative available? What do all the trumpet and horn players use for their hand guards?

-evan

imperialbari wrote:Leather is pure poison to brass instruments, if it has not been tanned in a way making it free of acid.

And then leather by its very nature always will be porous. The danger is, that it will transport your skin acids down to the brass anyway.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

evan wrote:That's good to know. Is there some alternative available? What do all the trumpet and horn players use for their hand guards?

How about naugahyde (vinyl)? It's chemically neutral and nonporous. Any upholstery shop should be able to sell you all that you require.

How did TubaTinker's experiments go?

Regarding the green, it is best that it be cleaned off as best as possible, because it indicates some sort of acid has, at least at one time, been eating on the brass. In my case my souzy was stored under some auditorium seats. Coca-cola spilled on the seats worked its way through the bolt holes in the floor and dripped onto the souzy. Since Coke has both phosphoric acid as an ingredient, and since the CO2 interacts with the water to form trace amounts of carbolic acid as well, I cleaned off the green, trying not to disturb the patina and what little lacquer was left otherwise.

windshieldbug wrote:How did TubaTinker's experiments go?

The experiments with Coricone 1700 metal sealer were a marginal success. The stuff seals the brass just fine, but still allows a mild patina to develop. I was hoping for something that would preserve a nice polish job a little better. I'll probably continue to use it on my own horns but don't think I will sell it.

My main axe is raw brass. I dont shine it -- except if I have a (classical-type) solo appearance, then I'll shine the bell, maybe.

I had neoprene guards made that have cloth on one side, as the raw brass would irritate my arm. They work very well and dont affect the horn (except for a bit of tarnish underneath, as I dont remove them very often)
They stretch and hold on with velcro.


You can see it here:
http://tubajoe.com/images/gallery_photo ... sin-e8.jpg

(and dont say anything about needing a haircut!!!)

Thank you all so much for all of your input -- I really appreciate it!

The idea of a sealing layer between the outer leather cover and the brass is a good one, especially as the leather will at some time become an overloaded deposit of human skin acids. As soon as you find the leather really nice and smooth, it had become very dangerous for your brass and even nickel silver. I speak out of personal experiences, which I am not proud of.

However no layer of whatever woven fabric will act as an effective seal.

The hand guards most often sold for trumpets and horns may have the US sales name of naugahyde. We, depending on nationality, call it kunstlæder or Kunstleder meaning artificial leather. It basically is some sort of nylon supported by a woven fabric. It works perfectly until the first crack in the nylon layer. As I understand it, heat and sunlight are the main factors in stiffening up the nylon and hence inducing cracks.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre