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My opinion: college first.

In all fairness though, some individuals manage to do it the other way around and have success.

If you play euphonium and get accepted into UNT then go there.

When I was in the Army I watched *all* of the folks who came in straight out of high school turn really sour. They liked high school band and mistakenly thought that a job in an Army band would always be fun too. I know of folks (e.g. Pete Link. . .) that did go straight in and made it work for them but, in my experience they are a minority.

Have you considered the National Guard or Army Reserve? Steady monthly paycheck($200 or so for a weekend), money for college(Texas pays 100% in state) and your chance to serve your country. The 36th Infantry Division Band(ARNG) is located in Austin. I belive that they will pay for a hotel while you are there doing your monthly drill. Basic Training and your AIT(School of Music) time will count for college credit. There is a possibility of deployment as there is with any military service, but I say go for it and have fun. My two deployments to Iraq have helped make me who I am today. You can practice with little disturbance as meals are provided and you never have to wonder what to wear.... I got to play Ewald's First quintet in the Kuwait Dessert on a sousaphone and again a month later in a balistic helmet and body armor for Iraqi Nationals. You can do a three or four year enlistment and maximize your benifits while helping to protect those you love. To me, it's a no brainer.

TJ

From google:

http://nrotc.osu.edu/band.html

I don't think there's a Naval Guard but there are Reserves--'not sure if there's a band.

There are Air Guard Bands (USAF Air Guard) though--check those out!

Your choice should be based on where you are as well as what you want to get out of the experience. Speaking for myself college was a mistake...I was not ready to stick my head in a book right after high school, all I wanted to do was play the tuba. Foolishly, instead of joining the millitary right away I went to college and collected thousands of dollars in debt, did'nt get my degree and wasted too much time figuring out how to make a living in music when I could have done just that while making a pay check instead of collecting debt that would haunt me for years! The millitary will pay for your college while paying you and allowing you the freedom to pursue your long time pro goals by giving you time to practice and perform on a consistant basis. These things are invaulable to a performing career. The millitary is not all roses, from a profesional stand point you play the same marches and basic rep from the time you enter at "A" school until you leave the service however long that may be. You also have that whole millitary thing which lets face it isn't for everyone. In short if you are dedicated to your craft then the military can be an exellent option for young musicians. That said college was alot of fun and had I been more responsible it also would have been much more productive.

This is how I personally rank the military field or fleet bands of each of the service.

1.) Air Force
2.) Navy
3.) Army
4.) Marines

Air Force from what I see gets alot of very good musicians, promotion is slow, and you usually need to be a graduate to be at the level of most Air Force bands. It is very unlikely the Air Force will be hiring soon.

Navy gets many expceptional musicians. Not as many have degrees from what I have seen. Minimal colateral duties out side of your job.

Army is good, but from a musical stand point they also require that you spend time learning about more military things like shooting at the rifle range, and pistol range. Basically you get to learn about all the stuff the infantry does, and if the **** hits the fan, you are called up to do security for bases so the grunts can have a safe place to sleep. This may require you not playing your instruments for some months.

For the Marines are the responsibilities are the same as the Army. From what I have seen the least number of Marines of all the services with performance degrees. Hard working group, with personal appearance (Uniforms, and maintaining weight according to military standards) being very important. If you are a "corn fed" type maintaining acceptable weight may prove to be difficult, and could lead to discharge, or administrative action that might cost you money. You can and will most likely be deployed as a member of a Marine Band.

I'm refering only to the fleet and field bands. Not the premier bands. As far as reputation, the Presidents Own has a great reputation, and is probablly the most recognizeable of all the premier service bands. The majority of them people weren't required to go to boot camp, and aren't considered "real marines". I am not sure, but I do beleive that most premier bands require you to go to boot camp before enlisting.

There's more than just going to boot camp to being a real marine. It is a well known fact amongst military musicians that most of the Marines in the Presidents Own aren't real Marines. They're not required to do qualifications in rifle, gas chamber, and are non-deployable. If you ask any Marine Musician in the fleet if ALL of the members of the presidents own are real Marines, the answer will be no. We don't hold it against them, in fact we envy them because they don't have to put up with all the day to day bullshit of being in the fleet military.


If you look at the Marine Corps Rank insignia. There are crossed rifles, that designates some one that gone through recruit training and mct, and is a Marine. If you look at the rank insignia of the members of the Presidents Own. You will see that they have a musical lyre instead of the crossed rifle. That purposefully distinguishs them from the Marines that have earned the right to wear the crossed rifles.


Infact I'd be willing to bet most of them haven't even touched a rifle. I'm not trying to put them down for what they're doing they provide their country and troops a great benefit, but as for being considered a real marine the majority simply aren't.

Doc,

I'm not even sure how to respond to your comments. I appreciate your opinion, but your sarcasm makes it difficult me to find some place to begin.

Marines take great pride in the fact that they have the longest, and probablly toughest boot camp of all Armed Forces in the United States. Every Marine is considered to be a basic infantryman. Meaning they are trained shoot, march, and follow orders. I know I am full well not the only one with this opinion of the members of the Presidents Own. They are greatly respected amongst Marine Musicians, for their musicianship, and what they do. How ever, they're not considered real Marines, and all the sarcastic comments in the world won't change this fact.

The fact you're probablly offended by my opinion doesn't bother me. I'm also not bothered by the fact that if you ask most infantry man if a Marine Musician is a real Marine, they'll probablly say no. I'm not offended by this. It's just the way it is. They consider real marines to be 0311 or 03XX, and that's it. Honestly I wouldn't even begin to put myself in the same league as most of those guys. I know what they've gone through, and I respect it.

As far as the premier bands of the other services, I don't care what they call each other. They're not Marines.

sandiegotuba wrote:Doc,

I'm not even sure how to respond to your comments. I appreciate your opinion, but your sarcasm makes it difficult me to find some place to begin.

Marines take great pride in the fact that they have the longest, and probablly toughest boot camp of all Armed Forces in the United States. Every Marine is considered to be a basic infantryman. Meaning they are trained shoot, march, and follow orders. I know I am full well not the only one with this opinion of the members of the Presidents Own. They are greatly respected amongst Marine Musicians, for their musicianship, and what they do. How ever, they're not considered real Marines, and all the sarcastic comments in the world won't change this fact.

The fact you're probablly offended by my opinion doesn't bother me. I'm also not bothered by the fact that if you ask most infantry man if a Marine Musician is a real Marine, they'll probablly say no. I'm not offended by this. It's just the way it is. They consider real marines to be 0311 or 03XX, and that's it. Honestly I wouldn't even begin to put myself in the same league as most of those guys. I know what they've gone through, and I respect it.

As far as the premier bands of the other services, I don't care what they call each other. They're not Marines.

I believe that Doctors do not go to "boot camp" in the Navy, Air Force, or Army (I think). Was Hawkeye Pierce not in the Army? Do Jags go to officer's candidate school? I think I heard that they do not. Are they not members of the armed services? Of course I may be misled on all this information.

Are Marines that retire after 20 years of service having never been to war REALLY considered Marines? I think so. They were ready to do their job if needed at all times.

The argument about members of USMB not being real marines is very silly. We all had to enlist after winning the audition. We had to go to MEPS where we passed a physical and took the ASVAB (I think that is what it is called). We have to reinlist when the time comes. We can retire after 20 years of service. Sort of sounds like a regular Marine don't ya think?

My military ID card says Master Sergeant USMC on it. I don't know too many civilians with a card like that.

Let's spend our time talking about something tuba related, OK?

Give 'em hell, Doc.

Doc wrote: Sean,
You're in one of those fancy bands. You got credentials? You a real soldier, a trained killer?

He is. Unlike the "Presidents Own" Band all TUSAB musicians went to Army Basic Training. In fact, I believe that Sean's band is the only premier military band to have ever been deployed (WWII). Also, I'm guessing Sean takes an M-16 to the range about twice a year.

If TXTubaPlyr2007 can win an audition for a premier band then I say go for it.

I'm doing my best to not use the cliche, "If you're not one you wouldn't understand", and to find a good way to explain this.

But simply, that is exactly the way I feel. I know for a fact i'm not the only one that feels this way.

The Marine Band doesn't waste bootcamp on its members because the govenerment wants the prettiest pony it can put up for show, and the prospect of going to boot camp would make many of the better musicians hesitant to join as the there's not just A LOT of work, but there's also A LOT of screaming which could wreck the voice of any one hoping to play and sing.

"Field Bands" just go see your local recruiter.

"Premier bands" look for an audition announcement.

Cameron Gates wrote:
I believe that Doctors do not go to "boot camp" in the Navy, Air Force, or Army (I think). Was Hawkeye Pierce not in the Army? Do Jags go to officer's candidate school? I think I heard that they do not. Are they not members of the armed services? Of course I may be misled on all this information.

Hawk eye pierce is a fictional character of a television service. The stuff you see on JAG is fiction, and yes in the Marine Corps and ALL officers except for the obvious ones such as the Presidents Own have to go to OCS.

Cameron Gates wrote: Are Marines that retire after 20 years of service having never been to war REALLY considered Marines? I think so. They were ready to do their job if needed at all times.

Yes they are, and i've never argued that fact Do not put words into my mouth implying these allegations

Cameron Gates wrote: The argument about members of USMB not being real marines is very silly. We all had to enlist after winning the audition. We had to go to MEPS where we passed a physical and took the ASVAB (I think that is what it is called). We have to reinlist when the time comes. We can retire after 20 years of service. Sort of sounds like a regular Marine don't ya think?

Being a Marine is a little bit more than just an ID card, a hair cut, and putting on a uniform. There's a reason why you don't wear the crossed rifles, why you don't shoot a gun, why you don't deploy. I dare you to go to the forums of military.com and claim you're a real marine in the Marine Corps forums. You'll make the server glow from the flames.

Boanerges wrote:Msgt Gates,

I think that I was the one who opened up this can of worms about who's the better band of all the services. The topic can be very much so Tuba related if we might be apprised of what goes into the regimen of the *President Own* band. Could it maybe be the amount of rehearsal time or the sheer number of performances each year or that they play for Heads-of-State and the highest office-holders in America which would mean that they have to be on their toes, both literally and figuratively?

Maybe because they exemplify such a thoroughgoing professionalism in all what they do - think of the Navy's Blue Angels or the Air Force Thunderbirds - everybody on the team takes an inordinate amount of pride in what they do - nothing is left to chance - all the *i's* are dotted and all the *t's* are crossed.

*And Heaven's scenes are guarded by US Marines*

OOOOOOORAAAAAAAH


Boanerges

The Presidents Own is probablly the most visible, and well known of all the military bands. It has the ability to get the best musicians in the entire nations because of its fame. Whether it's better than the other premier bands is debatable, and i'm not trying to get into a pissing contest regarding that. I personally feel they are but that's just my opinion.

RyanSchultz wrote:

Doc wrote: Sean,
You're in one of those fancy bands. You got credentials? You a real soldier, a trained killer?

He is. Unlike the "Presidents Own" Band all TUSAB musicians went to Army Basic Training. In fact, I believe that Sean's band is the only premier military band to have ever been deployed (WWII). Also, I'm guessing Sean takes an M-16 to the range about twice a year.

If TXTubaPlyr2007 can win an audition for a premier band then I say go for it.

TUSAB ("Pershing's Own") members do go to Basic Combat Training. We do not qualify on any weapon or any other training since. The only regular training we must do is PT--both the PT test (pushups, situps, running), and we must pass the standards for weight/body fat composition.

We do not do any other regular qualification training, with one exception--we have been sending a group every year to Afghanistan/Iraq to perform for deployed troops. Those who deploy do have to requalify on the M16 and NBC training and more before they can leave.

All military band members in all services go to basic--the only 2 exceptions are the premier Marine Band and the Coast Guard Band.

The Army, Navy, and Marines all use a standardized method for evaluating if you're qualified to become a military musician.

First they take your pulse, if they can feel it. You're hired.

All kidding aside you must be able to play all your major and minor scales, then they'll have you site read, and then you can play a solo. It's really not hard, and if you're capable of getting into UNT the audition you'll give is cake. I recommend you get at least a 3.0 on the 4.0 scale of auditioning because if you get less than that they'll send you to the school of matrimony....er music. You'll spend every thursday cleaning your room from 5 pm ish to 9 or 10. It'll be inspected every friday morning. If you forget to take out your trash they'll make you clean your room al over again even if it's not that dirty.
Expect to do duty (sitting at a desk making sure people don't come in after curfew, and that men don't go into the women's barracks and vice versa.) during the night 2-4 hours depending on the number of people there at the time. The best experience you'll have and the worst. It's probablly the only time in your careeer you'll be with so many different branches of the US Armed Forces. Many a life long friendship has been formed here.

Any way below there are some links that will hopefully answer some of your questions.

https://www.npdc.navy.mil/css/som/

If you want the easiest less bullshit way, go navy.

https://www.npdc.navy.mil/css/som/defau ... dinfo.faqs

The link above is a FAQ

sandiegotuba wrote:

Cameron Gates wrote:
I believe that Doctors do not go to "boot camp" in the Navy, Air Force, or Army (I think). Was Hawkeye Pierce not in the Army? Do Jags go to officer's candidate school? I think I heard that they do not. Are they not members of the armed services? Of course I may be misled on all this information.

Hawk eye pierce is a fictional character of a television service. The stuff you see on JAG is fiction, and yes in the Marine Corps and ALL officers except for the obvious ones such as the Presidents Own have to go to OCS.

Cameron Gates wrote: Are Marines that retire after 20 years of service having never been to war REALLY considered Marines? I think so. They were ready to do their job if needed at all times.

Yes they are, and i've never argued that fact Do not put words into my mouth implying these allegations

Cameron Gates wrote: The argument about members of USMB not being real marines is very silly. We all had to enlist after winning the audition. We had to go to MEPS where we passed a physical and took the ASVAB (I think that is what it is called). We have to reinlist when the time comes. We can retire after 20 years of service. Sort of sounds like a regular Marine don't ya think?

Being a Marine is a little bit more than just an ID card, a hair cut, and putting on a uniform. There's a reason why you don't wear the crossed rifles, why you don't shoot a gun, why you don't deploy. I dare you to go to the forums of military.com and claim you're a real marine in the Marine Corps forums. You'll make the server glow from the flames.

Easy there SanDiego. I was in no way intending to "put words in your mouth". I brought this up as a way to look at the topic from another point.

Seems as if you have an axe to grind on this subject. I respect your right to have an opinion even if I do not agree with it.

Cameron Gates
USMC

Doc wrote:Yes, Sandiegotuba, I understand. I've heard this before from other Marines who have it drilled into their heads that the only way into the Marines is through their stringent boot camp - the almighty rite of passage.

And this is bad how? That is what boot camp is for. I am proud of how I got to be called a Marine. My father was in vietnam he was drafted into the infantry and attached to a ranger unit as a fire direction control for their mortar platoon. Does he call himself a ranger? No. Did you know that if any one from another service wants to join the Marine Corps they have to go back to Marine Boot camp, and if a Marine wants to join another service they don't have to go to boot camp. That to me says alot about what boot camp is for a Marine. It says that upon completion they're ready to go into any other service. I think that's pretty damn special. Every thursday they have ceremonies where Marine recruits at the end of their training are awarded the Eagle Globe and Anchor that they've earned and are now worthy of the title of Marine. This is part of the tradition of becoming a Marine. Going through these trials and tribulations are part of becoming a Marine, and in my opinion one that hasn't gone through these isn't a Marine. Unless their service predates things such as boot camp.

Doc wrote: It is my understanding that recruiting depots were not the norm prior to the world wars. People enlisted and went to their duty stations for necessary training. The band always did this, and since they were non-combatants, their training did not involve boot camp. This enlistment procedure ended for regular enlistment, but not for the band. That's my understanding.

Doc wrote: Shiny pony? Certainly. For good reason. Necessary? Of course. Don't want to wreck voices/bodies? Understandably, because of the nature of their job in the Marine Corp. All this, yet they can't be a real Marine. What the hell is wrong with that Marine Corp anyway?

Doc wrote: I wouldn't understand since I'm not one? That's the argument made by people whose argument has no factual basis. Emotion only. I don't need to be Marine to observe simple facts and grasp common sense. I haven't been molded to think a certain way. Wasn't in my training either (I ate my yellow vegetables). Just as I don't have to be an ultra-liberal to understand what a disconnect from reality can do. Just as I don't have to be a victim to understand the brutality of crime. Just as I don't have to be child molester to know he needs to be culled from society with prejudice. Just as I don't have to be shot with my gun to understand its effects.

I think my arguement has plenty of merit. You do not know what it means to be some one or something until you've actually done it.