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I recently tried a B&S tuba (not sure of the model) and liked it he told me that WW&BW has a VMI tuba that is basically a copy of it.....should I look into it more and maybe bnuy it at some point or am I wasting my time?

Might it have been a B&S PT-1? If so, it's basically the same as the VMI 2103. The main differences are: 1) 19" bell on the PT-1 v. 17.75" on the 2103, and 2) about $2000 more for the PT-1.

The VMI 2103 has also been sold by Brook Mays as the F. Schmidt 2103 - same horn.

B&S and VMI are the same company. Check their new web-site. see the link on the "shops" page.

Alex "who just happens to have a very nice VMI 2103 for sale in the For Sale section but doesn't want to be too obvious about it" F.

Here is a more current link to the B&S/VMI web site:

http://www.ja-musik.com/tuba/index.php

As I mentioned above, B&S makes tubas under both the B&S and VMI names. B&S in turn, is one subsidiary of Ja Musik, which also owns Meinl-Weston, Hans Hoyer (horns), J. Sternberg, and other brands.

In the US, Custom Music, near Detroit, is the sole authorised dealer for B&S. VMI tubas and euphs, however, are sold be WWBW, Dillon's, and others. In the US, B&S also carry the name "Parantucci" taken from the names Robert Tucci and Dan Parantoni, two respected tubists who have helped to design the B&S/VMI line.

The VMI 2103 has been known as the 103, F. Schmidt 2103, and now appears to be numbered the GR-51. The PT-1 is also known as the B&S 3103. Confused enough?If not, consider the Musica 2300 (aka VMI 101) sold by Dillon Music (very similar horn, 16.5" bell).

And, none of these is to be confused with the B&S 3301 aka VMI 3301.

Bottom line: try the horn and don't be too concerned by the name.

well I had no idea that that many different name's could converge in such a way

A rose by any other name....

I believe bloke likes these tubas also. PM to make sure.

tubatom91 wrote:I recently tried a B&S tuba (not sure of the model) and liked it he told me that WW&BW has a VMI tuba that is basically a copy of it.....should I look into it more and maybe bnuy it at some point or am I wasting my time?

Is it a CC or BBb tuba? If it's a BBb, then what some of the other posters wrote could be correct. However, maybe you played the PT6P CC tuba. Woodwind and Brasswind now carries an Allora model that is essentially a copy of that. I haven't played it and have no idea how it compares to the PT6P.

Somebody could also have been talking about the Mel Culbertson tuba, which is made by VMI and is basically the same design as the large B&S tubas. However, I think these instruments play very differently.

the B&S was a BBb

I recently reviewed the B&S website. The GR-51 looks like it has a larger throat and less flare bell than the PT-1/2103 to me. Plus, it has a graduated bore at the 4th valve the other two do not have.

Alex F wrote:Here is a more current link to the B&S/VMI web site:

http://www.ja-musik.com/tuba/index.php

As I mentioned above, B&S makes tubas under both the B&S and VMI names. B&S in turn, is one subsidiary of Ja Musik, which also owns Meinl-Weston, Hans Hoyer (horns), J. Sternberg, and other brands.

In the US, Custom Music, near Detroit, is the sole authorised dealer for B&S. VMI tubas and euphs, however, are sold be WWBW, Dillon's, and others. In the US, B&S also carry the name "Parantucci" taken from the names Robert Tucci and Dan Parantoni, two respected tubists who have helped to design the B&S/VMI line.

The VMI 2103 has been known as the 103, F. Schmidt 2103, and now appears to be numbered the GR-51. The PT-1 is also known as the B&S 3103. Confused enough?If not, consider the Musica 2300 (aka VMI 101) sold by Dillon Music (very similar horn, 16.5" bell).

And, none of these is to be confused with the B&S 3301 aka VMI 3301.

Bottom line: try the horn and don't be too concerned by the name.

Conn used to sell an "International" model, which I believe was the same horn also. A former student of mine had one and it was a killer horn. He "upgraded" to a MW CC when he got to college and traded the Conn in on it and it was at Baltimore Brass for awhile. If I would have had a spare 3K sitting around I would have bought it.....

ken k