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Has anyone played either of these brands? They are in a more affordable price range, but what concerns me is quality, playability, durability, etc. I haven't found any down here to play so I would appreciate any comments.

A student of mine purchased an Allora 191 tuba. It plays very well. There are workmanship issues. There seems to be little care given to solder joints (on this particular horn) It has an on-again, off-again rattle on a first line G, The valves are OK, but a little rough. The appearance of the rotor casings seems to indicate a lack of caring workmanship. Also remember, that there are some repairmen who WILL NOT work on these horns. There are afraid, and rightly so, that if there is a problem that requires replacement parts, they will not be able to get them. You will also need to see if your mouthpiece will fit. The receiver does not seem to accept any standard. The mouthpiece just sort of sits there. All in all, if you don't want to spend a ton, they are good purchases.

TonyZ wrote:It plays very well. There are workmanship issues.

Hmmm. I'd have said the same thing about my new King 2341.

So in that particular regard, it seems the American-made's are "keeping up" with the imports.......

chipster55 wrote:Has anyone played either of these brands? They are in a more affordable price range, but what concerns me is quality, playability, durability, etc. I haven't found any down here to play so I would appreciate any comments.

I am quite familiar with the Dalyan tubas as Orpheus Music(local) distributes them. They let me try a couple of them for about two weeks each. My opinion of them is that they play pretty well. I especially liked the piggy model. I don't know enough to address the durability issue. Overall, I would say they are good tubas for the money. I don't like them as much as I do my Mirafone, but then again I wouldn't expect to, either.

I compared the Allora and Miraphone 191 models head-to-head when I was shopping. I thouhgt the sound quality of both was pretty similar, though I was listening from behind the horns, not, I've found, the best place to listen from. (Doing it again I would take a recorder so that I could listen from the audience's viewpoint). The Allora was far inferior in fit and finish vs the Miraphone. It had a number of odd buzz's and vibrations, and the valves did not have the same effortless smooth action as the Miraphone. That said, if I were a starving student I'd have happliy gone home with the Allora. I'm not, and I really like well made tools, so I bought the Miraphone.

rwiegand wrote:I compared the Allora and Miraphone 191 models head-to-head when I was shopping. I thouhgt the sound quality of both was pretty similar...

My experience goes the other way, I'm afraid, though I hesitate to draw conclusions based on that one test. Even the odd Miraphone can be a dog.

I was at the Brasswind helping my niece buy an instrument and Roger invited me to spend some time in the tuba room. There were some great tubas in the room. I did find the Allora 191, hiding in a case, and compared it with the Miraphone it copies. The two were not on the same planet. My niece could tell the difference on the first note. Intonation was wacky, and the sound didn't have the same richness.

It's possible that instrument had a specific issue, such as a leak somewhere. But I didn't attempt to figure it out.

I have also played a Dalyan tuba, and thought it very nice, especially for the price. For someone wanting a new tuba in that price range, it's quite a reasonable choice.

Rick "thinking the Chinese tubas may not be great yet, but at least the better ones are now actual tubas rather than tuba-shaped sculptures" Denney

I have Allora 186. Mine is a good one. Slides are perfect -- slide easy but only when you push them (i.e. they don't fall out). I've not taken the rotors apart, but after just over year of playing, notes are solid with no stuffiness anywhere. Good tone. Can't complain about intonation. I do have to fight with a double-buzz tendency on 4th line F# and 4th space G; but I'm just about positive the problem is me rather than the horn.

Low notes are OK down to 124 E-flat. Then back pressure really shoots up when you go for the 234 D. You have to back off the mouthpiece some and let some air leak to compensate. If I'm loose and in the groove. The 1234 C will work.

If you look on the WWBW web site, the people who have taken the time to post a review seem to be pleased with the Allora 186. And I don't think the WWBW people edit the reviews. You do see some 1-star reviews sometimes on some of their house brand stuff.

Well as with any tuba you would consider purchasing you'll have to just go play one to make your own mind up as to the quality and value. If you are serious about wanting to try the Dalyan you can find a good selection just four hours south in San Antonio.

Go to www.dalyantubas.com or, email dalyan@orpheusmusic.com and they will be able to help you.

Good luck, the Berlin and the Prague are my favorites.

SplatterTone wrote:I have Allora 186. Mine is a good one. Slides are perfect -- slide easy but only when you push them (i.e. they don't fall out). I've not taken the rotors apart, but after just over year of playing, notes are solid with no stuffiness anywhere. Good tone. Can't complain about intonation. I do have to fight with a double-buzz tendency on 4th line F# and 4th space G; but I'm just about positive the problem is me rather than the horn.

Since the buzz is evident with two notes together, it sounds like a misplaced brace problem to me. Run your fingers over the horn when it buzzes on these two notes and try to find a spot that vibrates more than it should. If it's near a brace, you can have your tech relocate the brace to damp the vibration. if not, wrap the point of vibration with golfer's lead tape. I believe when you do find the vibration and either move the brace or wrap it with tape your intonation will get even better. More rarely, it cold be a cold soldered brace or ferrule joint, meaning either not enough flux was used on the solder and/or the tech didn't hold the torch on it properly to sweat the joint together properly, and it can vibrate between the brace or ferrule and the bow, but you can't see anything from the outside. If you're not that good at sensing vibrations separately, try running your dominant hand under tepid water for a couple of minutes to soften up the tips of your fingers slightly.

I own the Allora 186 and have had it for a little over a year now and have found it to be more than adequate for my needs. The day I received it I sat down with it and a Miraphone 186 and compared everything about them. The sound is very comparable with some minor intonation issues in the higher range, but sounded great to me in the pedal range. The build, the Allora is a little heavier, but I find that to be a little more reassuring since my horn spends a portion of it's time sitting out in my classroom. I teach in a small school where I get K-12 grade students so a little heavier build is comforting.

As far as valve issues, I haven't had any but it is off for a chem cleaning right now and I haven't heard back from the tech yet so I don't know what his opinion is.

I have found it to be a great horn for the money and when the time comes to buy a new tuba for the school this is probably what I'll get.

I thought I would post an update on the adventures with the Allora 186.

I got the opportunity to compare it with a Holton 346 (note: 6 not 5). Even though it sounded a lot different to me at the mouthpiece, the wife and son said they sounded almost identical. The Holton felt kind of blubbery (my description) to play; but then, I'm used to the Allora.

The church brass group with which I was participating was unceremoniously dumped when the music director suddenly decided she would rather not spend the time with it. So I migrated to the Baptists (yeah, you can tell I'm real Baptist kind of guy). The group is lead by an experienced and good band director who knows how to get a lot done in a short amount of time. Rehearsal can be fairly intense.

There I got to stand back and listen to another tubist do a side-by-side with a VMI 2103. The 2103 sounded a little bigger on the low end. Both horns felt about the same to me to play. I could play low 234 D a little easier on the Allora; but then, I'm used to it. The VMI felt like it weighed a bit less. The VMI definitely has a more elegant appearance -- not that the Allora looks slouchy; just a bit more "pragmatic". And I must emphasize the slides on my Allora are essentially perfectly fitted and aligned.

When I got mine as a demo model for $1800, the choice was easy ("normal" price iirc was around $2200). Now that the price on the Allora has been jacked up (yes, "jacked up") to $2700, I can't say I'd choose it over the 2103 now. That price still puts a $1000 below the VMI; but the VMI does have a bit more going for it -- mostly looks, but some sound too.

And now for the good part: The 2103 player started playing euph partly because he likes it better and partly because ... um ... the band director preferred he do that rather than play tuba. In two rehearsals now, during the tune up, the group has been told to listen to the tuba and tune to the tuba. Keep in mind that we have to play along with a 50-some rank Aeolian-Skinner organ which isn't going to budge its tuning for anyone. As I have posted previously, I have never run into any intonation issues with the Allora 186 -- certainly no issues that could be attributed to the horn.

When it was around $2200 (iirc), it was a good deal, especially if you got a sales person who would sweeten the deal a little bit. At its current price, I'll just say it is worth your consideration if that is the range of your budget.

I weighed in on this thread, earlier, but I now have additional information which might be helpful. I presently have a Dalyan Apollo CC on loan from Orpheus music. I am playing this instrument full-time while my Miraphone 186 CC is on its way to Reno so that I can play it this coming weekend. I have had the Dalyan for about a week now and have had a chance to get to know it pretty well. For those unfamiliar with the instrument, it has an .825 bore but is actually a little smaller than the Miraphone 186.

All in all, it is a fairly good instrument, but it pales in comparison to the Miraphone. Its tone in inferior to the Miraphone and seems a little uneven through the cash register. I have not yet become comfortable with its tuning tendencies. I don't think it plays particularly in tune with itself, although I have to admit I have been spoiled by owning the Miraphone for a lot of years.

All in all, I believe it is worth the money it costs, and offers a more economical way for someone to own a decent tuba. So, in my opinion, if someone wants a brand new tuba, and has trouble coming up with the cash for a better one(Miraphone, PT, Meinl-Weston,etc.), the Dalyan offers an instrument of reasonable quality for a reasonable price.

For those in the Reno area, I will be playing my Miraphone with the Sauerkrauts at the Reno/Sparks Oktoberfest this weekend(9/29-9/20). Come on out, hear the group, and say hello.