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Our community jazz band is in need of a reliable body to play 4th trombone, preferably a bass-bone. I was kicking around the idea of a a marching baritone or euph for this purpose. They seem to be priced right coming out of drum and bugle corps, and only a couple years old. Probably more than a few hours on them though.

Anybody done this and have a good mesh with the typical jazz band sound? I don't want to retrain my brain for trombone for a host of reasons.

Better be a really free-blowing axe so you can get some bite on the low notes. Otherwise, it should be fine. It's not the characterisctic bassbone sound, but it's close enough for jazz, and you'll be able to kick out some volume.

I have always considered this to be a legitimate idea. Isn't the trombone section pulling out their marching euphs the same as the trumpet section pulling out their flugels?

I was considering the marching baritone in hopes of being closer to a bass trombone sound. There are plenty of marching euphs around too though. None of them seem to be available as a 4 valve, that may be a weight consideration though.

In our Dixieland group, we have a gentleman who uses an old Conn 14I (bell-front baritone) to double some of the trombone, tenor sax, 2nd clarinet, and 2nd trumpet parts when required. It works just fine. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules to jazz/Dixieland. Whatever works is OK.

Hey, go for it! Whether Bb or G! What's a mere transposition of a minor third (one line on the staff and add three flats) among friends? At the very least, it keeps the valves free between marching seasons!

How about a valve trombone?

If you are looking for the bigger bore, look for a Cerveny 4 valve rotary valve trombone.

If your 4th book doesn't carry any notes below E, then an american valve trombone.

Tom Mason

If you can march any instrument but tuba, congratulations!
I don't know what I said to my band director to convince him to let me play snare drum in 13 straight Mardi Gras parades instead of a Conn sousie but it worked and my left shoulder was grateful.

Tom Mason wrote:How about a valve trombone?

If you are looking for the bigger bore, look for a Cerveny 4 valve rotary valve trombone.

If your 4th book doesn't carry any notes below E, then an american valve trombone.

Tom Mason

I sniffed around that tree too. Price-wise, the marching baritone is less. I approached the jazz-band director today with this idea, he was less than enthused. I figure I offered them a way to have a part filled with a horn I can play well out of the gate, if they don't want it, I'll move on.

I used a marching baritone in HS for a couple years before I learned slide, and I know many people who have also done this. I would absolutely encourage it for anyone who doesn't know slide trombone but wants to play the parts. The problem however is that with 3 valves you only have the same range as a straight tenor trombone. Plus marching baritones are generally much stuffier than trombones because of the valves and numerous bends in the tubing. Playing 4th parts would be pretty hard and sometimes impossible on a 3 valver. I'd look for something with a bigger bore and 4 valves if possible.

The best solution would really be to buy a cheap used bass (even single valve) and learn the positions. I know it's easier said than done, but if you have enough time to learn the instrument, it may be easier in the long run than attempting the parts on marching baritone.

I don't know why people go so far out of their way to avoid learning a slide. You are young (relatively); just bite the bullet and learn slide trombone; it is NOT that hard - look at some of the trombone players in your own school if you doubt me. You can get by with a regular tenor with an F trigger to start until you get to more advanced rep, which many high schools don't even try to handle.

MartyNeilan wrote:I don't know why people go so far out of their way to avoid learning a slide. You are young (relatively); just bit the bullet and learn slide trombone; it is NOT that hard - look at some of the trombone players in your own school if you doubt me. You can get by with a regular tenor with an F trigger to start until you get to more advanced rep, which many high school's don't even try to handle.

Very true. I learned to do it in a week as a freshman in high school. My brain was full of mush back then, so anyone can do it. You may have your reasons for not wanting to do it, but for all others....go for it. It's easy and its fun.

MartyNeilan wrote: You are young (relatively); just bite the bullet and learn slide trombone.

Aw, shucks Marty

I'm flattered, but I'm actually 37. Still young though, thanks.

I have a King 605 that I picked up at a yard sale for 20 bucks. It is in good shape, and I intend to learn slide over the winter. I was just looking at a fast and dirty solution to an immediate problem.

drewfus wrote:Marching baritone / euphonium in jazz band?

I'll bet that if you play it well enough, you won't even have to march!

In 1987 I volunteered to play in the community band in the small town I grew up in. Even though I was a valve brass player, there were insufficient trombones, none who could lead or carry the section and the director had recommended that I start on trombone instead of trumpet anyway back in 5th grade in the autumn of 1972. So I went out, purchased a used King 3B for $200 (I still have the receipt and the bone - a 1963-ish HNWhite with the brown allegator suitcase and all the goodies Ahh, but I digress), purchased a Rubank Advanced Method Vol I to go with my King 3B, and just dove in the week before the first practice. By the first rehearsal date, it was readily apparent that I would be playing principal. It was a great two seasons, until a move forced the end to playing that gig. Just do it. Unless the music gets below E nat below the staff, don't even worry about a trigger, although the trigger can help with difficult lower passages.

I borrowed a bass bone and covered the 4th book for a big band concert a few weeks ago. Granted, I started out in grade school playing bone, so I have a vague idea of what the slidey thing does, but I had to figure out what to do with the two valves. Boy, was that an eye-opener. Pitch, pitch, pitch... ugh. In the end, it was worth it for me. YMMV.

Anyway, if you can get yourself an axe, it's a good double to have. Truth be told; after doing all the practice and rehearsals, I'd like to get my own bass trombone to have for gigs. I had to borrow a marching baritone to play Easter this year. Those Trombone II parts were just too @*&#%!! high for an F tuba and weak-*** chops.

Bob1062 wrote:My buddy Rich has a King Marching baritone which he uses in jazz band for solos.

sorry, i couldn't resist.

That's OK, even if the picture is a Conn 14k!