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I've had several requests to add a 4th piston to Eb horns. I have to say, unless you are really serious this... the costs are probably going to be higher than just buying a 4V Eb horn outright. I just finished doing a 4v conversion on a Conn Pan American 'monster' tuba. In this particular case, a gentleman brought me an Eb tuba and two Conn 14K sousas to use for parts. The cost was about $1,500... not including the parts. Here's a picture of the finished product:



The story is here:

http://thevillagetinker.com/pan_america ... ersion.htm

Nice work, Dan.
Since my 1940 Eb has a 24 inch recording bell and nice false tones, I would take your advice and let my wife hold onto that $1,500 a little longer.
She's so cute when she thinks she's rich.

Clever work, Dan. Makes me want to go out in the garage and do some hands-on work like beat out a bent panel on my old Triumph sports car...well, maybe when the ambient temp drops below 100F.

Well... the only question left is.... how does it play?

Does it play well enough to make it worth the effort to the owner?

Bandmaster wrote:Well... the only question left is.... how does it play?

Does it play well enough to make it worth the effort to the owner?

The horn plays very well. I used it for two hours this morning for a regular Dixieland rehearsal. It has a distinct dark sound similar to the Marzan BBb. I was pleasantly surprised to get such a big round sound out of an Eb. I don't think my 4v Eb King centers as easily as this big Conn. I may call the customer on Monday and tell him the horn is trash and try to buy it from him!

These large Conn Eb tubas are almost universally regarded as very nice planters, so what makes this one play well? It looks as though you've relocated the tuning slide from before the valve section to after it, and the bore of the valves must be something like .730 compared to the original .694. What effect did those changes have?

-Eric

Shockwave wrote:These large Conn Eb tubas are almost universally regarded as very nice planters, so what makes this one play well? It looks as though you've relocated the tuning slide from before the valve section to after it, and the bore of the valves must be something like .730 compared to the original .694. What effect did those changes have? -Eric

The original horn had a tuning slide in the leadpipe. The new tuning slide is actually harvested from the same Conn 14K sousa as the valveset came from. The new valvset is .737 bore and where the main tuning slide ties into the old horn matches very closely. The end result is a horn that is fully playable. The new leadpipe is an off-the-shelf aftermarket leadpipe that when trimmed to the proper length matches the bore of the valveset and also fits the receiver (also Conn). It was custom bent to fit this horn. Everything worked together to create a new rendition of an old horn that didn't play very well to begin with.

A short leadpipe into a Conn .734 block is probably one of the most underrated combinations out there, probably because for some reason Conn really never used the .734 block anywhere but their sousaphones, save for the Donatelli CC. Instead of hacking up a King 2341 to make the 5XJ series, they should have used the Donatelli blueprints instead, if they even still exist after MacMillian trashed everything.

Thanks Dan, for the great pictures, and for reminding me why I have NO desire to do something like this!!

WOW, great work. I had a Conn Monster Eb I sold to a Canadian fellow about 17 years ago. It was a 3 valve, front action I believe. He had a sousy 4th valve added. The horn had a great fat sound, but blew kinda funky in the bottom end. It looks like you found the solution.

And that would be me - yes, the 4th valve I had added to your Conn never seemed to slot in exactly right...the tuba ended up in Charlie Krause's hands when he used to work for WWBW in South Bend...

Best,

Alex

Was that a silver Conn with a brass 4th valve? (iirc)

It ended up in MY hands for about a year whilst I was saving up for my Besson 983 -- and for which I was able to trade it BACK to Charlie. I think I was actually THERE at WWBW when you traded IT (the Eb) in for something rather large and new.

And ... you're right ... it didn't work out all that well, but it helped me learn Eb fingerings and was a reasonable choice for a temporary horn.

Cheers!

That's the one - great to learn about its fate and also to hear that it was useful! I did play it for a couple of years, working very hard when employing the 4th valve...I wonder where the tuba is now? As I remember, it had a superb Conn logo engraved on the bell...