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Wondering if someone has been down this path and can offer some pointers.

I have acquired a 1907 York euph which is in remarkable condition, kind of like an over-the-road truck with an eye popping number of miles but with good maintenance. It has both the low and high pitch tuning slides but A440 is too high for one and too low for the other. Also, it has the small receiver although it's bore is 0.575 at the 4th valve. The small receiver is kind of limiting since a larger thoat bore mp is hard to find in that shank. I cobbled up an adapter to a smaller bass bone mp and it plays much better on the low end. The pitch is also lowered to the middle of the high tuning slide.

Opinions? Is changing to a large shank receiver the best way to go? I have not been able to see if other intonation problems arise. Cutting the low pitch tuning slide would not be easy since the ferrules are close to a brace. Playing it is the goal, preserving any value as an antique is further down the list. NWD

My guess is that the low-pitch is A=435 or about 20 cents flat for A=440.

Why not fabricate a new tuning slide? There are several repair techs on this BBS who could probably do it for you--and you get to keep the old one for "historical" purposes.

NeilD wrote:Wondering if someone has been down this path and can offer some pointers.

Low pitch is indeed a bit low, but it shouldn't be THAT low. Check to see if the valves leak, which is not unlikely for such an old instrument. But probably it's too low because you are trying to play too large a mouthpiece.

My 1937 Reynolds is also a bit low if I put a big honking mouthpiece in it. These were not made for Schilke 51D or Bach 1-1/2G mouthpieces. These were made for mouthpieces more like a Bach 6-1/2AL (which is MUCH bigger than the typical tenor bone mouthpiece 99 years ago).

Try a Denis Wick 4AY mouthpiece. It's a euphonium-size mouthpiece with a tenor trombone shank, made especially for the Yamaha 321. Even that mouthpiece might be too big.

I think you undermine the qualities of such an old American-style baritone by putting a modern large euphonium mouthpiece in it. I think you're better off learning to make a mouthpiece of the intended size work. I think it takes an embouchure with more support closer to the aperture, where tuba players usually are trying to relax.

Rick "whose tuba embouchure comes out flat on a euph" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:

NeilD wrote:Wondering if someone has been down this path and can offer some pointers.

Low pitch is indeed a bit low, but it shouldn't be THAT low. Check to see if the valves leak, which is not unlikely for such an old instrument. But probably it's too low because you are trying to play too large a mouthpiece.

20 cents exactly. A4=435 is the old "international pitch".

A4=435 gives Bb2 (2nd partial) of 115.2Hz/298.0 cm
A4=440 gives Bb2 of 116.6 Hz/294.6 cm

So the tuning slide is about 3.4/2 cm too long on each leg, or about 2/3 of an inch. Probably more than a simple mouthpiece change will yield.

I have a double bell Conn presentation baritone of the same vintage, that was made with Low Pitch tuning slides. It was definately built to A=435. In this case, I did not get any High Pitch slides, so I had to re-manufacture them. Extended, they will play at A=440, which is what I used to perform with this instrument.

A=435 was the "international standard" before A=440. I know you said that you don't care so much about originality, but you might consider the same thing (creating a new slide if the High Pitch slide won't pull out far enough) in order to preserve the value of the horn.

Likewise, a mouthpiece should be possible with the size you want, but with a smaller shank. You can always enlarge a throat. But why screw around with it at all if you're getting what you want with an adapter and a bass 'bone MP?

Since the horn has both High and Low pitch tuning slides, it should have been built short enough to be in tune at A=455+, so it should be fine with the valve slides pulled out to compensate for A=440. Conns, in fact, had a mark inscribed on each valve slide as to how far they should be pulled for a starting point. I don't know if the Yorks were, but even if they weren't, some work with a tuner will give you the proper valve slide lengths. Bore shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks to all for the comments. The horn came with a Conn-Innes mouthpiece which is very small and shallow, not what I would expect to use with anything but a 0.500 bore trombone. As regards pitch, it plays about the same as my 5G but much brighter.

I have never had a horn with really worn valves, this one has some clearance, not as tight as a modern instrument. I wonder if coating the valves with a heavy sealant such as vaseline and play-testing it would be a reliable way to check for excessive leakage. Guess I'll give that a try.

Hard to believe that this thing had been played four years before the Titanic went down, I've seen school horns that looked worse..... NWD

Do not use vaseline on the valves, unless you want to manually use two fingers to both push the valve down and pull it up, then spend two hours cleaning it off of them. Buy some Hetman's heavy, which is made for such, or put a drop or two of mineral oil in a vial of regular (not synthetic) valve oil to test the wear. First completely clean it and oil it with a conventional oil to see how it plays as a control reference, and clean it between changing oils so you get a better feel and lessen any chance of interaction of the oil residues.

iiipopes wrote:Do not use vaseline on the valves, unless you want to manually use two fingers to both push the valve down and pull it up, then spend two hours cleaning it off of them. Buy some Hetman's heavy, which is made for such, or put a drop or two of mineral oil in a vial of regular (not synthetic) valve oil to test the wear. First completely clean it and oil it with a conventional oil to see how it plays as a control reference, and clean it between changing oils so you get a better feel and lessen any chance of interaction of the oil residues.

Fishing reel lube (e.g. Abu Garcia lube) mixed with a bit of valve oil also works without gumming things up.