Living with Monster Eb's

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:30 pm

Bob1062 wrote:How about a Yamaha 321 Eb valveset in a big/small York? A working man's YamaYork? It could even be silver!

I'll let you know in a couple of months. I've got all the pieces, just haven't gotten around to gluing them together yet.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:33 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Cool! Is that a big York or a small one?

19" bell biggun.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:55 pm

Bob1062 wrote:So the valve set fits fine within the bow of the York? Do you think it could bolt into a small York Eb?

How hard is it to find a Yamaha valve set?

Thanks

I traded for the valve set, so I don't really know how hard it is to find one. As far as the linkup, it looks like it'll be a pretty good fit, but I won't know for sure until the thing gets tacked together.

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:17 pm

I wish you all the luck with getting a useable Eb from any of the monster Ebs. They all seem to have the same quirks as the typical modern European F tubas with response in the money-part of the low register around C, B and Bb. It seems that the pre-1916 Conns, Kings and some Holtons are better than the later Conns and all the big Yorks.
I'm taking on a project of trying to solve this problem on a 4-valve Conn from after 1916. That is when Conn started to put the tuning slide in the lead pipe. I think that situation contributes to the problem, but I don't think it is the total fix. I'm betting that I'll have to swap out some of the branches to achieve the results that are desired. At least I have lots of those parts to experiment with.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:23 pm

I built the valveset for this Eb 'monster' out of some Conn BBb parts. It worked out very nicely.

http://thevillagetinker.com/pan_america ... ersion.htm

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:35 pm

I live with a Monster EEb just fine. It's great for keeping umbrellas in.

tofu · Post by **tofu** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:51 pm

The alternate fingerings ARE the standard fingerings on my 1913 Buescher Monster Eb. While the horn has a wonderful big contrabass sound I would be hard pressed to use it as an only tuba. While the low C and B natural are quite good the low Bb is flat out non existent.
The false tones are terrific and in tune.

This horn is very mouthpiece sensitive and it was a piece of advice I picked up on tubenet to use a small one that made all the difference in the world. With a big mouthpiece it was impossible to get it in tune.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:27 pm

Bob1062 wrote:How small of a mouthpiece?
Are most of these top valved?

If it is a vintage horn (thus "monster bore"), the odds are that using the original mouthpipe taper are very good that the horn was designed, and will work best, with a smaller mouthpiece.

Modern mouthpiece profiles didn't evolve until about 50 years later.

The type of action depends very much on the age and maker. Earlier horns are mostly top action, while later horns could be either, even from the same maker.

markaustinhowle · Post by **markaustinhowle** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:42 pm

I have a York Monster Eb and think if I had to have only one tuba it would be the one to use. It is great for solo work, better than an F tuba in my opinion for quintet and very good for band. I have concerns however for using it in an orchestra though. Currently it is a four valve front action tuba, but I am going to have a 5th valve added as soon as a get around to it.
(There are some quintet pieces I would use a CC instead if I had it available, and there are a lot of band works I would use a CC (or a BBb instead) though. I am not proficient with all four sets of fingerings and that is a factor.

Art Hovey · Post by **Art Hovey** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:25 pm

In my not-sufficiently-humble opinion, the problem with Eb tubas is not the intonation. You can learn to play any horn in tune if you work at it. The problem is in the low-register tone quality. There are some situations where you don't have to play down there, but many more in which I want to hear a rich, full tone coming out of my bell down in the cash register. Eb tubas are fine for Patrick S. and Oystein B; I love what they do with them. But for us mere mortals playing regular tuba parts in bands and orchestras, they are not my first choice.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:21 am

Art Hovey wrote:In my not-sufficiently-humble opinion, the problem with Eb tubas is not the intonation. You can learn to play any horn in tune if you work at it. The problem is in the low-register tone quality. There are some situations where you don't have to play down there, but many more in which I want to hear a rich, full tone coming out of my bell down in the cash register. Eb tubas are fine for Patrick S. and Oystein B; I love what they do with them. But for us mere mortals playing regular tuba parts in bands and orchestras, they are not my first choice.

This depends mostly on the sound in your head. When I had only an Eb to use, and importantly only experience of playing an Eb - it fully met my expectations and seemed to deliver the goods, even for the biggest symphonic repertoire.

However, having now played a 6/4 CC with its richer and more resonate sound in my head, I would never again be satisfied with an Eb for everything. So, it is mostly to do with personal sound expectations.

Uncle Buck · Post by **Uncle Buck** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:21 am

A better option than putting a YEB-321 valveset on an old monster EEb would be just to use a YEB-321. If you get a used one, probably cheaper in the end, also.

Plenty of individuals have successfully used that model in band and orchestra settings (despite the number of posters on this site who say it can't be done . . .).

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:37 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Why do these horns have bad intonation? Is it a large mouthpiece thing? Tiny valve bore?

It may be much simpler than that. Consider that York used the same bottom bow and bell for the Monster Eb and thier 4/4 BBb. The problem then boils down to how to get from the end of the mouthpiece to the bottom bow without getting things too far out of whack with a screwy taper.

I submit that it's difficult.

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Living with Monster Eb's

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