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I recently bought a Miraphone 1291 CC, because I love the way it plays and the way it sounds. It felt "pretty comfortable," in the sense that it was 1) bigger than my old horn and 2) a piston-valve horn (I've only played rotary for the past 8 years or so). I knew it would take some adjusting, and I'd need to develop some new muscles to really feel comfortable.

After about 2 months now, I still love the way it plays, but I'm still not entirely comfortable with it. Specifically, it's my right hand. After long rehearsals, it gets tired quickly and occaisionally gets a few pains going through it (when I feel pain, I stop).

My question is - is this just a matter of building muscle memory and "working through it" to make it work, or should I be feeling better about this by now? Are some hands "just not made for piston valves?" Just for comparison, I pulled out my old rotary horn this afternoon, and the valves just seemed to fit my hand a lot better.

Any thoughts on this? I certainly don't want to give up too quickly, but at the same time, don't want to try to fool myself with something that just isn't going to work. I figure that after a busy season of Christmas concerts, I'll have a MUCH better idea, but I'm curious to see if anyone else has had this problem.

I hope this makes sense to someone out there...

...or more fundamentally, is it so bad to buy a horn, as potentially a "very" long-term trial?

bort wrote:I hope this makes sense to someone out there...

Indeed it does! You might want to try replacing the stock valve springs with lighter ones -- if I remember correctly, Yamaha euphonium springs work well (check with Roger Lewis at WWBW to confirm).

I have owned two piston valve tubas----Meinl Weston 2145 CC, and Miraphone 1291 CC. Both of these tubas sounded great, but I sold them in order to go back to rotary valves. My present tuba is a rotary Miraphone 188 CC---a dream horn. Some players really like piston valves but, for me, rotary valves are the way to go. (BTW, the best rotary valves I have experienced were on a big Cerveny 601-5MR CC tuba----really sweet action.)

Doc wrote:...hooked me up with some Yammie springs, and it's been great ever since.

Are you referring to Yamaha euphonium springs?

...

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the input. Ironically enough, I decided on the 1291 over a 188, and it was a very close decision. Maybe it's time to reconsider?

Regardless, I'm viewing this as 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' for a little while longer. I don't think there's any shame in that.

PS...Tom, what did you end up changing to?

...

Tom wrote:Although there are some Alex guys on tubenet, they aren't too popular around here.

Alex guys not popular? I never noticed that. In fact, they tend to get a lot of respect, as well they should--Alexanders are demanding tubas to play well.

Rick "thinking that it's the tubas themselves that aren't that popular, for well-established reasons not including sound" Denney

Just a thought, but I used to get pain in my hands because I had developed poor hand placement on the valves. My knuckles contact the valve, and my hand was kind of cocked to the side. Once I realized the problem and corrected it, it made a world of a difference.

DP wrote:

Tom wrote: Although there are some Alex guys on tubenet, they aren't too popular around here. I think the fact that Alexanders in general are notorious for "interesting" pitch tendencies keeps most away.

There's another word for notoriety: "gossip"
More is said about alexes here by people who haven't even played them than even (dare I suggest) St Pete's or other trash-talk tube-net objects d' jour
Not surprising, since (it seems) so many folks like to trash-talk things they know nothing about

True, true...

Rick Denney wrote:

Tom wrote:Although there are some Alex guys on tubenet, they aren't too popular around here.

Rick "thinking that it's the tubas themselves that aren't that popular, for well-established reasons not including sound" Denney

That is, of course, what I meant. I certainly wasn't knocking any of the guys that play Alexanders.

You might check to make sure that the thumb ring is not placed so that your hand is at an odd angle. I had to have the thumb ring on my 1290 moved so that I could even use the thing. Yahmaha valve springs for tuba (plastic coated so they are quieter might also help.
Good Luck, Phil

SqueakyOnion wrote:Just a thought, but I used to get pain in my hands because I had developed poor hand placement on the valves. My knuckles contact the valve, and my hand was kind of cocked to the side. Once I realized the problem and corrected it, it made a world of a difference.

A big mistake some people make is playing flat fingered. I feel the currently popular half-dollar sized flat piston buttons contribute to this. The fingers should be slightly curved (somewhat similar to playing the piano), with only the fingertips contacting the buttons. When playing this way, it is easy to understand the much smaller buttons that were used a generation ago.

FWIW, I think it's the increased "spread" of my fingers that gets me. Also, I've experimented a bit with the thumb ring, and don't think that's the cause of the strain. On my old rotary horn, I found the most comfortable placement of my hand was to not use the thumb ring at all. Go figure.

I will certainly try the Yamaha Euph springs though.

Don't use Yamaha euphonium springs, use Yamaha TUBA springs. The springs for all Yamaha piston valve tubas are the same. If there is too much bounce, then stretch them a little.

Clean and oil your valves well when you replace the springs. Valves that are dirty or unoiled will be more prone to sticking with lighter springs.

Ed Jones wrote:Don't use Yamaha euphonium springs, use Yamaha TUBA springs. The springs for all Yamaha piston valve tubas are the same. If there is too much bounce, then stretch them a little.

Roger Lewis has told me at least twice that he uses euphonium springs on his personal 1291. He did not specify the brand of spring. 1-800-348-5003, ext. 2266

Poor Lindsay looks cold. It was very nippeley out that night.
I play a three piston, top action King.I have no plans to add a forth, fifth, or sixth valve. Around or about the third set, my right hand cramps up for awhile. I switch to left hand on the valves and shake the right hand down low until the kinks come out.

Top action pistons-not for sissies.
Dennis Gray
tubatooter1940
www.johnreno.com/

bort wrote:I recently bought a Miraphone 1291 CC, because I love the way it plays and the way it sounds. It felt "pretty comfortable," in the sense that it was 1) bigger than my old horn and 2) a piston-valve horn (I've only played rotary for the past 8 years or so). I knew it would take some adjusting, and I'd need to develop some new muscles to really feel comfortable...

As someone pointed out to me about this horn: "You have to remember that it was made with Alan Baer's specifications in mind..."

Since I'm nowhere near the size of Mr. Baer, (5' 8" 160lbs) it took me a little while to adjust, too. Not to mention I gotta maneuver around that dang top bow...but to me it was well worth it.

Just my two cents.