Cutting a Besson 983?

[djwesp]

Definitely not trying to start the Eb vs. F debate.


However, I was looking to see if anyone out there has been brave enough to cut one of these horns and what it was like afterwards.

[ASTuba]

Besson tried, at the request of several people, to make this into an F tuba. It failed miserably...

[iiipopes]

Here's the problem: to compound all of the problems with getting the right taper to what's left after 18 inches are cut out of the bugle and getting the individual slides cut to the right length, you also have to cut all the comp tubes as well, because, take for example, the extra length of tubing to make the comp adjustment for 2-4 B nat on an F tuba is significantly shorter, theoretically about 3/8 inch, than the same comp loop for A nat on an Eb tuba. So if you cut the F to Eb, not only are you going to get the usual intonation problems, but unless you cut the comp loops all the combinations with 4th valve will be flat. The makes the job basically one of completely rebuilding the tuba from scratch, with no guarantee it will play anywhere near in tune with itself, much less anything else.

[humphrey]

Besson tried, at the request of several people, to make this into an F tuba. It failed miserably...

And here's one on ebay!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Besson-F-Tuba-4-val ... dZViewItem

Is this the besson that Arnold Jacobs said he liked?

[MaryAnn]

Here is another tuba on fleabay: http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI ... 0043992692

Can someone tell me what it is? I also see a lot of "Virtuosi Instruments" brand by this seller, which I assume is a Chinese brand. Yes? (no, I'm not considering it/them. No more shipping for this kid; I fly there and play test.)

MA

[Lew]

Besson tried, at the request of several people, to make this into an F tuba. It failed miserably...

And here's one on ebay!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Besson-F-Tuba-4-val ... dZViewItem

Is this the besson that Arnold Jacobs said he liked?

Yes, that's a Besson F, but not one of the 983 prototypes. The 983 is the side action version, not the 3+1. As far as I know this is the only model F tuba that Besson made commercially.

[Lew]

oops

[humphrey]

Yes, that's a Besson F, but not one of the 983 prototypes.

Quite right....This is much more akin to an old B&H imperial or Besson new standard.

There is a 983 type here....

http://www.pamelasmusic.co.uk/images/Ph ... s/Tuba.htm

I have heard some horror stories about the intonation on these models.

The question from my first post still intrigues me though. Is the older type Besson the one that Arnold Jacobs plays on the '73 ITEC lecture?

Here is another tuba on fleabay: http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI ... 0043992692

Can someone tell me what it is?

This is a MUCH older British make. In fact the makers (Hawkes & sons) merged with Boosey & co to form Boosey & Hawkes.

The Boosey line seems to be the model for the later B&H/Besson tubas. I have an old Boosey cavalry tuba & the valve block & tubing seem to be identical to the later Imperial/New Standard/Soveriegn instruments.

P.S. Sorry about the lack of quote marks..... Still not got the hang of the way to format them. D'OH!

[imperialbari]

xyz

[Rick Denney]

So is the intonation bad because of the shorter comp thing, or what?

That is a cute little horn.

Bad intonation is usually caused by an improper taper design. That that's a common possibility when converting instrument to another bugle pitch. The intonation of the original Besson 3+1 F's wasn't that bad, and both Euphs and Eb tubas, which surround the F, are not bad at all. The difference with all of those is that they were designed to be what they are, not converted from something else.

Sometimes, conversions work well. But the skill of the guy doing the conversion isn't just in the brass work.

Rick "who would like some time with a real Barlow F someday" Denney