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let me be the first: King 2341

You need to play as many different horns as you can before making a decision. New is nice, but there are some great used horns out there that would be within your budget. Take a little money out of your budget and visit a few places like Baltimore Brass, Woodwind/Brasswind, and Dillons.... just to find out what you really want/need. Take your time.

All the above advice has been great, let me throw another brand in there: Jupiter 582 and 482.

tubagrl wrote:I haven't been playing in about 10 years and need to purchase a tuba. I will be playing in a community orchestra and band setting(BBb). I want to spend between $3000-$4000. Any suggestions? Someone said a St.Petersberg 201N or a Cerveny 686?

The St. Pete has a reputation more vile that it deserves. But that said, it's quite expensive for what you get. The two that I've played seemed to play well enough, but reportedly they are difficult to maintain and difficult to repair, in addition to being soft and prone to dents. The nickel-plated versions make repairs a bit harder.

Cerveny is an old name in the tuba world, but it's parent, Amati/Denak, suffers from too many years of central planning. Quality control has always been quite poor. Good ones are not bad at all, but the bad ones howl at the moon. I once owned a Sanders-labelled Cerveny, and it was not a bad instrument, but it attracted dents like fleas on a dog. I also had to replace the valve linkages that were poorly designed from the factory.

I think I would rather have a Dalyan than a St. Pete, and perhaps would consider it before a Cerveny unless I could get professional help buying the latter.

But your price range will move you up a notch, I think. The King 2341 is within your price range in lacquer, and it is not just a good tuba for the money, but a great tuba in absolute terms. A used Miraphone in good shape is also a possibility at that price, and a better option than any of the new instruments at that price except the King. You might be able to find a rotary VMI in that range, which is also excellent.

Others have recommended that you go try them out. I submit that such advice only works for people who have their chops in order and the sound they want freshly fixed in their head. Those are difficult requirements to fulfill for a returning player after a long absence. My recommendation is to seek the advice of a professional or skilled player who can help you make the choice. You can get this sort of service from stores, but only from a very few stores in my experience. I can support the recommendation of Dillon Music, Baltimore Brass, and the Brasswind (as long as you work with Roger Lewis) based on my own experience. But you'll be even better off taking a bit of that money and taking a lesson with the local pro and asking him to evaluate your choices. Recognize that many local pros have professional affiliations, however, so even their advice has to be put in context.

If you want to buy a tuba sight unseen, the new King 2341 and a used Miraphone seem the best potential choices to me. Both will be good enough to get you started even if they are not perfect. And both will hold their value well enough so that once you have regained your abilities and decide to go another way, you'll be able to recoup enough of your investment to fund a different choice. That will not be true for the new tubas you mentioned.

Rick "who thinks tubas that feel good with weak chops might constrain the abilities of strong chops" Denney

Your safest bet is a used Miraphone 186. This is safest in terms of likelihood of getting a dog (their consistency is excellent), and in terms of resale value down the road.

You also should seriously consider the Carl Wunderlich being offered for sale here:

http://thevillagetinker.com/horns_for_sale.htm

I second the 186.....

You should be able to find one easily in the price range you mentioned.

"I would buy used if I had the chance to play it first. So thats why I'm leaning towards new."

By this do you mean you would NOT buy a used tuba without playing it, but you WOULD a new one? Because this is a potentially awful option! You should no more buy a new tuba than you would a used one without either playtesting it yourself, or, if this is the case, having it playtested for you by one of those guys mentioned above, whose professional opinion is something you can take to the bank. There is no reason a new tuba would play well and a used one not in all cases; there are good and bad of each variety!I second the opinion you should try a used Mirafone 186--their quality control is remarkable, so their consistency is too. Good luck!

Do not discount a used tuba:
1) you do not have to suffer the depreciation of a new one
2) any "new horn" issues have been sorted out
3) because of 1 & 2 above, the price is less, and usually of better playability than a brand new one, regardless of brand.

The only new brass instrument I have ever been a part of was the new trumpet my folks got me when I started 5th grade band. Unbeknownst to all of us, including my school band director who was a woodwind major, it had something in the tubing that kept fuzzing out the tone, and did until the day I got rid of it. New is not by definition better, old is not by definition worse. All horns were new at some point, all horns get old by being played. Forget new/old, and play everything in your price range to see what instrument(s) feels good to you. If it feels good, plays well, and has structural integrity, then that's the horn for you. All the recommendations are based on collective past experience that some brands & models are generally better made and therefore have better reputations for overall tone and intonation in your price range, such as a used Miraphone 186, a precyborg King 2341, Cerveny or VMI as previously mentioned. There are some other brands as well, so play as many as you can. If you must purchase without playing, from how you have described yourself, the chances of getting a good horn for your situation are probably better with a used, but cared for, 186. Make sure you call the places listed, as well, for Dan, Matt and the others will shoot straight when you describe yourself to them and tell them what you need and what your budget is. The quirks about 186s can be summed up in their linkages: the older bracket, or "S" linkages can get noisy for lack of adjustment, and some of the not quite so old ball linkages can have ends that crack and need replacement. But if you're used to care and feeding of rotors, that should not be a problem for you.

Doc wrote:Not to be an ***

Since when?

you know I just beat everyone else that wanted to say it

I think a far superior choice to any of the above would be a used B&M f.Perfect for community band and orchestra.

MikeMason wrote:I think a far superior choice to any of the above would be a used B&M f.Perfect for community band and orchestra.

I would agree up a point, but finding one isn't particularly easy. I've only seen two in Bb for sale in the last five years, not counting York Master tubas, which would increase that total to four.

Rick "thinking B&M's, even in Bb, require a little more intonation management skill than Miraphones" Denney

Yet another attempt at humor falls flat

MikeMason wrote:Yet another attempt at humor falls flat

That's the trouble with the "freak jury"; no matter what you mention, there are probably members who could not only do it, but do it well...

MikeMason wrote:Yet another attempt at humor falls flat

Not entirely -- surely I'm not the only one who noticed this:

viewtopic.php?t=17575

MikeMason wrote:Yet another attempt at humor falls flat

After playing a B&M horn for so long, you'd think you'd be used to that.

A lot of good opinions and informations are in this thread. My opinion is that it would be difficult for you to go wrong with a Miraphone 186. They are good playing horns, and are very consistent in quality.

TubaRay wrote:A lot of good opinions and informations are in this thread. My opinion is that it would be difficult for you to go wrong with a Miraphone 186. They are good playing horns, and are very consistent in quality.

And, nobody was ever fired for specifying IBM.

MikeMason wrote:Yet another attempt at humor falls flat

I didn't catch the irony. B&M piston tubas are outstanding and often within the price range stated. Did I miss something?

One of my section mates bought a B&M 5500 in Bb about six months ago. It was in very good condition with only a couple of needed repairs and otherwise looks nearly new. She paid less than $2000 for it. It's a much later model than my York Master, and it's a wonderful tuba and a spectacular deal.

Rick "thinking Nirschl ought to go back into production" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:I didn't catch the irony. B&M piston tubas are outstanding and often within the price range stated... thinking Nirschl ought to go back into production

I'm with you, Rick! I love my B&M Marzan, and it's a rotor!