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I stumbled onto this horn today and dragged it home. Now, I would like to know what it is. It's a BBb with a 21" bell and a .860" bore. The horn on the right is my Mirafone 186... for size comparison. Could this be an old Alexander?:



More images at:

http://thevillagetinker.com/misc%20images.htm

Count me in with the "idiot" label. I would also guess Czech. Possibly Russian. But what do I know.

It doesn't look like an Alex.

Bohemian, probably, but could even be Italian(!). Got a closeup of the valve section?

Do you have a close-up of a valve?

From far away the lack of a discernable stop mechanism on the casing suggests Cerveny to me... but I, too am just a member of the "Freak Jury"!

(The most important part: how does it sound?)

Bohland and Fuchs (sp)


Daniel C. Oberloh

How does it play?? Or is it in playing condition?

windshieldbug wrote:Do you have a close-up of a valve?

From far away the lack of a discernable stop mechanism on the casing suggests Cerveny to me... but I, too am just a member of the "Freak Jury"!

(The most important part: how does it sound?)

Here's a shot of the rotors. The stop mechanism is one that I've seen before on old Eastern European tubas. It's just a pin in the top of the rotor and has the cork bumpers incorporated into the stop arm.

I played the horn through a couple of sets in a rehearsal this morning. It's in-tune with the main slide all the way 'in'. The sound is exactly what one should expect from a bell-flare like this.... big and round. Darned difficult to overblow or get to sound 'edgy'.

I've also seen this type of bracing before. I'll be adding a few more photos to my 'misc images' page shortly. Here:
http://thevillagetinker.com/misc%20images.htm

Dan, I don't think the bell rim's original. It's just not right for that kind of tuba. I'm pretty sure that you may find traces of an old garland on that bell.

Chuck(G) wrote:Dan, I don't think the bell rim's original. It's just not right for that kind of tuba. I'm pretty sure that you may find traces of an old garland on that bell.

I think you are probably correct. I would have expected to see a kranz on the bell. That being said, I can't find any evidence that the bell has ever had any work done to it. No residual solder... no super thin spots... no signs of of creases, etc. ... not a scratch! Of course, a repair could have been done many decades ago that have since lot all telltale traces. Just looking over old horns and trying to imagine who might have played them or in what environment really gives me a charge! This horn was obviously(probably) made between WW1 and WW2... which can conjure up all sorts of images!

Adam Peck wrote:My best guess is that it was made by Bohland & Fuchs. It shares many characteristics with two tubas that I have right now.

Popular vote is that my horn is probably a Bohland & Fuchs... but the only similarity between my horn and the horns you pictured are the .860" bore, the bell flare, and the one brace below the main tuning slides. The ferrules, bow guards, badges, configuration of the leadpipe, configuration of the main tuning slide, and just about everything else are different.

I sent some images to Amati this afternoon. Maybe they'll be able to tell me more.

I have a B&F Eb, maybe F, three rotary valve tuba that has many similar components as the monster you have shown. The bell has the standard rolled bead rim (original, no wreath). Made in Graslitz Austria, yes I said Austria.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
www.oberloh.com

Daniel C. Oberloh wrote: Made in Graslitz Austria, yes I said Austria.

..where else would Graslitz/Kraslice have been before/during WWI? The Sudetenland was part of the Hapsburg Empire up until the late 19th century until 1918, when it was part of the Austo-Hungarian Empire (hence the "Austria" label). Between 1918 and 38, it was part of Czechoslovakia, and after 1945, Czechoslovakia again.

What would be very rare would be to see a tuba with "Graslitz, Germany" as a point of origin. That would put it between 1938 and 1945.

Does anyone think that the Bohemian instrument-building traditon arose out of the presence of the Moravian church in the same area?

Adam Peck wrote:Dan, Bohland & Fuchs seem to have made a variety of designs of tubas for different markets. Often ferrules,braces and other pieces will be very different from horn to horn or year to year.

Oh... I didn't mean to question your logic. There was so much 'parts swapping', 'name using', and political changes going on in Eastern Europe that it's hard telling who did what before WW2. It's always fun to speculate whose hands might have been on a horn such as this one.

Adam Peck wrote:Here is a pic of the silver Kalashen BBb valve section.

Dan's tuba doesn't have any rubber bands (that I can see... )

Adam Peck wrote:.... I would like to see a comprehensive list made of where the various parts were manufactured. ....

Yeah. Me too! I have too many projects going already. I sent some pics to Amati hoping to get a little more info about the horn. Surely whoever made the horn eventually got gobbled up by one of the conglomerates. Their response came back "we have absolutely no idea".

Funny... I've had a very difficult time getting production information on horns as late as the Marzans (70's).

Then, of course.... we've got Conn right in our own back yard who stupidly burned their records! Next comes Yamaha... who never has kept tract of their serial numbers.... just the 'before' or 'after' the 100,000 mark.

TubaTinker wrote:Funny... I've had a very difficult time getting production information on horns as late as the Marzans (70's).

Then, of course.... we've got Conn right in our own back yard who stupidly burned their records! Next comes Yamaha... who never has kept tract of their serial numbers.... just the 'before' or 'after' the 100,000 mark.

God bless the product liability lawyers and automotive recalls!

windshieldbug wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:Funny... I've had a very difficult time getting production information on horns as late as the Marzans (70's).

Then, of course.... we've got Conn right in our own back yard who stupidly burned their records! Next comes Yamaha... who never has kept tract of their serial numbers.... just the 'before' or 'after' the 100,000 mark.

God bless the product liability lawyers and automotive recalls!

Yeah! If I had an airbag problem on my old King 1240, who would I call?

TubaTinker wrote:If I had an airbag problem on my old King 1240, who would I call?

FEMA!

windshieldbug wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:Funny... I've had a very difficult time getting production information on horns as late as the Marzans (70's).

Then, of course.... we've got Conn right in our own back yard who stupidly burned their records! Next comes Yamaha... who never has kept tract of their serial numbers.... just the 'before' or 'after' the 100,000 mark.

God bless the product liability lawyers and automotive recalls!

MacMillan burned the records so they didn't have to move them to Texas when they set up shop in Abilene.

You know: keep excellent records, or keep none at all. Sloppy records only get you into trouble.