TubeNet

Gary Swart wrote:I play in a German band that performs outdoors during the Christmas season. Last year, it got so cold our rotary valves froze solid. We hope it won't get that cold this year, but just in case, we'd like some input on what we can use on our valves to keep them from freezing.

Alyson valve oil won't freeze.


Just make sure you really clean out the horn before you switch.



Another idea is to tape a hand warmer to the valves. This has worked really well for me before.

Gary Swart wrote:we'd like some input on what we can use on our valves to keep them from freezing.

Scotch. Or Bourbon.

Here is a patent for a mixture of alcohol to prevent valve freezing:

Patent Number: 4233876

BiNaK claims to perform at very low temperatures, but doesn't say how low. The bigger problem, though, is the saliva.

I have had freezing valve problems only when temperatures reached 25 degrees F, and that was using Ali-Syn valve oil. Others in the group were using different oils and were already having problems by the time I did, but there could be many explanations for that.

Rick "who will not play in temps that low again" Denney

I've used those hand warmers - the kind you smack or shake and they get warm. I've used a sock to hold the pack against the valves and for a little extra insulation. Worked great on piston valves. I bet you could figure out some way to hold one against the bottom of a rotary valve - or maybe wedge it in tight opposite the paddles. Don't forget the extra one in your coat pocket for your hands!

Rick Denney wrote: I have had freezing valve problems only when temperatures reached 25 degrees F, and that was using Ali-Syn valve oil. Others in the group were using different oils and were already having problems by the time I did, but there could be many explanations for that.

Rick "who will not play in temps that low again" Denney

I guess the next question is. Since they are pet. based, do any of them really freeze at a temperature we are able to expose them to?


Or is it just the saliva causing the problems? Also, are the problems different from rotor to piston horns? Since the airflow of the instrument actually touches the body of the valve in a piston horn and much less on a rotor horn, does this make a difference? The spindle comes in contact with very little air from your mouth.


(hoping that nebraska doesn't get much colder than this---because he might find out first hand)

It's not really a matter of the oil or the saliva. Putting warm, moist air into a below-freezing bunch of brass tubing is certain to result in lots and lots of condensation. The oil may get thick and slow things down to a crawl, but it's the moisture that's going to freeze in the rotors. Go with the hand-warmer idea for a sure-fire solution. It should be a simple matter to attach a couple of the hand-warmers to the backside of the rotors and cover them with some insulating material.

djwesp wrote:I guess the next question is. Since they are pet. based, do any of them really freeze at a temperature we are able to expose them to?

Don't assume that petroleum-based oils have a much lower freezing point. The ultra-pure lamp oil that many use as valve oil is just paraffin, and one source I've seen for that has a freezing point of 47 degrees F.

BiNaK and, I presume, the other synthetics use mineral oil with a low freezing point.

But you and Dan are both right that in most cases it's the moisture we add not the oil that freezes.

Rick "who suggests drinking lots of alcohol" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:

Gary Swart wrote:we'd like some input on what we can use on our valves to keep them from freezing.

Scotch. Or Bourbon.

Here is a patent for a mixture of alcohol to prevent valve freezing:

Patent Number: 4233876
. . . .
Rick "who will not play in temps that low again" Denney

Aha. Water, ethanol and "permanent" automotive antifreeze. Good idea, but don't drink it or let the pets drink it.

http://www.warmers.com/

http://industrialsavings.com/Merchant2/ ... rmingpacks

http://www.preparedness.com/allweatclot.html

http://www.bowhuntinginfo.com/Equipment ... armers.htm

Some are one-time use, disposable. Others are re-useable, typically changing from liquid to solid when activated (releasing heat for an hour or more) and boiled to change state back to liquid to use again.

This is what I would use.

Cheers,

I use an anti-freeze oil for locks on my horn's pistons when the temperature drops below 0°C. It works very well - when I remember to wipe the Blue juice off the valves first.

Sounds like the handwarmers will do it, once we get the method of securing them worked out. But I'll bring the Glenfiddich just in case. (To ensure that the mouthpieces don't freeze-up, ya know?)

Chriss2760 wrote:... I'll bring the Glenfiddich just in case. (To ensure that the mouthpieces don't freeze-up, ya know?)

Och, aye!

zoro wrote: I used to bring blackberry brandy along for warming ,

That just sounds like a sticky mess.


Isn't that bad for the pads and corks?

.

It just tastes like crap.

Good thing we didn't step in it.

And unlike a lot of some of the other "home remedies," or motor oil, anti-freeze or such, in small amounts pure kerosene is not poisonous.

iiipopes wrote:And unlike a lot of some of the other "home remedies," or motor oil, anti-freeze or such, in small amounts pure kerosene is not poisonous.

But it stinks to high heaven.
We rarely freeze here on the Guf Coast but I am ready to whip up a batch of home made valve oil. I lucked up on some ultra-pure lamp oil at Walmart and am considering adding some household oil (3-in-1?) to thicken it a bit because my 1940 King recorder tuba must have some valve wear.
I wonder what the proportions should be?
What oil is best to thicken the lamp oil and not stink it up too bad?

With my first valve starting to show its wear, but not ready for a replate, I put a few drops of pure pharmacy grade mineral oil in my Roche-Thomas to thicken it up enough to keep the intonation from cracking, but not so much it slowed the valves down.

It's trial and error: add a few drops, see how it goes. Add a few more drops, etc. At the point it starts slowing down the valves, back off and add a little more base and call it good.

I recommend you start with a clean valve oil bottle that you can use just for the purpose, start with filling it with your base half full, then add your few drops of mineral oil, and let your combination set for a day after you mix it and shake it up to make sure you will have no separation, precipitate, gum, or other reaction, etc. from your mix.

And if all else fails, clean your horn out thoroughly and start over with a new bottle of Hetman Classic.

http://www.hetman.com/products.html