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Awful_Clyde wrote:I want to be sure to start off on the right foot

Usually the tuba is played with the right hand!

in our band we start off on the left foot - and no, bigger is not necessarily better!!

Killing two birds with one stone:

By objective acoustical parameters there is no doubt at all:

Pistons rule!

That is a very simple matter of port geometry,

The pistons introduce fewer distorting overtones. The US style front action cluster is superior from a mathematical view. The Berliner Pumpen are even better acoustically, but they had some inherent mechanical problems, so they are not made anymore.

The British top valved piston instruments by the above standards should not work well. But at least with my choices of mouthpieces they work excellently.

For the sake of honesty and fairness: some GDR-era B&S/Weltklang rotary tubas are GOOD. But 4 of my basses are US style, 3 are Brits, and 1 is a no longer restorable Dane with Berliner Pumpen.

I might have gone for a B&S 5 or 6 valve F, but my late section mate and friend, Ove, played the 5 valve version. He considered me God in musical matters, but he hated, that I played his tuba better, than he did. So I chose other solutions to avoid offending him. And Ove was not bad at all. I wrote several prominent ensemble parts for him.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

ATUTuba2010 wrote: . If you're on a budget, buy the St. Petersburg. It's just as good as the Miraphone 186.

uh...what?!

Awful_Clyde wrote:Ok...so now I'm a little confused...US verses other styles. Brings me to another question. Which is the most popular style of tuba and its playing?

In what setting? Marching band--BBb sousaphone, for example.

Awful_Clyde wrote:Ok...so now I'm a little confused...US verses other styles. Brings me to another question. Which is the most popular style of tuba and its playing?

In what country are you living and what sort of playing do you want to do? That will help determine what sort of tuba is best for your purpose.

Awful_Clyde wrote:US verses other styles... Which is the most popular style of tuba and its playing?

Whatever style the athletic department wants!

imperialbari wrote:By objective acoustical parameters there is no doubt at all:

Pistons rule!

That is a very simple matter of port geometry,

The pistons introduce fewer distorting overtones. The US style front action cluster is superior from a mathematical view.

Klaus, Please can you explain further? From observation the route through rotary valves usually looks smoother and being larger diameter do not require such a tight turn of the air flow.

Also, why should a front action cluster be "superior"? I appreciate that front action is usually more comfortable for the player, but how "superior from a mathematical view" to top action?

Awful_Clyde wrote:Also, would it not be prudent to avoid playing in an American style due to the steady decline in the U.S.'s popularity in the world?

Most likely. If you want to improve your odds numerically, adopt the Madam Mao Chinese style

Neptune wrote:

imperialbari wrote:By objective acoustical parameters there is no doubt at all:

Pistons rule!

That is a very simple matter of port geometry,

The pistons introduce fewer distorting overtones. The US style front action cluster is superior from a mathematical view.

Klaus, Please can you explain further? From observation the route through rotary valves usually looks smoother and being larger diameter do not require such a tight turn of the air flow.

Also, why should a front action cluster be "superior"? I appreciate that front action is usually more comfortable for the player, but how "superior from a mathematical view" to top action?

To diminish the inertia of rotor valve movements, their diameter almost invariably is kept too small. That implies a compression of the airflow. Furthermore the rotor casing is part of the air column shape. That causes distortions of the overtone patterns. Some consider that colourful. My ears find it overly colourful. In other words: I find it painful.

As some may know I also was a pro recorder teacher. That instrument is extremely sensitive to acoustical disturbances, because these are sensed as unbearable hisses.

Tubas operate several octaves lower, but I still am absolutely intolerant to out of tune overtones.

My playing on euph and tubas was considered having a full and rich sound, but being on the mellow side, because I was able to eliminate transients and bad overtones. However the result was, that the higher instruments could line up with my overtones, and the band would be better in tune, than when I was absent (on trombone and horn I was considered a terrorist, even if I always stayed in tune. But I could play very loud and full. I am no angel. Yet, that is).

The really rotten fact is that those of my rotors with the absolutely worst geometry (the ones on my King 7B) worked absolutely best in my ears.

I have had an extensive discussion with Søren on the problems of the rotor valves. But I cannot quote it here, as it was written in our shared lingo, which happens to be Danish. Maybe I will find it and translate it. And some was done via the phone anyway.

My love for old Conn sousas will be no secret. RD has written on the hypothesis, that the US front action tuba valve block is a derivate of the sousaphone block. I am all with Rick on that matter. The large front sousa bells are yardsticks of the makers’ acoustical abilities. If there is a distortion to the air column, that will result in bad overtones being very audible.

The to me the not so secret secret of the US style front action valve block is about the exit and re-entry angles of the airpath through the piston. The US style uses open angles of 135° on all valves but the 2nd. The top valved tubas are bound to use much sharper bends.

No European sousas are likely to play well. The reason is obvious: They apply standard top valve blocks from the makers’ standard model tubas, albeit with different slide wrappings.

This being said by a European.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre