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harold wrote:Question for all college sudents and seniors in high school that are applying for college:

Which schools are REQUIRING proficiency on CC horns prior to matriculation?

Thanks

Applied and auditioned at about 12 schools 6 years ago, not a single one required any proficiency on a certain key. They didn't care as long as you sounded good. (Kansas, TennTech, Texas Arlington, Tennar, UofA, Arkansas Tech, LSU)


Student is in the auditioning process now, and has applied about the same number of schools with the same response.

When I auditionedl, it didn't matter what key the horn was in. They were mainly looking for talent that could be developed. If you have talent, I am not sure anyone cares what key your tuba might be in.

Then again maybe things have changed in the last 10-15 years, but many of the teachers are still at the schools where I auditioned so I am guessing the standards are still the same.

tubaphore wrote:

Tuba

All graduate applicants should be able to demonstrate both the CC and F (or Eb) tubas at the advanced level.

from: http://www.music.indiana.edu/admissions ... html#brass

That is one I remember. I'm quite sure I've seen another requirement like it but I can't for the life of me remember which school it was.

Um...note the second word---"graduate".

Besides, I don't see that line listed under grad auditions...I see it with "transfer" replacing "graduate". But, how many undergrads are really proficient on F or Eb tuba AS WELL as CC?
Who am I to disagree with him though? Well, I certainly have my opinion...'nuff said

Why do you ask?

eupher61 wrote: But, how many undergrads are really proficient on F or Eb tuba AS WELL as CC?

When I was still in the music game, if you weren't proficient in both F (or Eb) and CC by at least the end of your junior year, you weren't a player anymore. Maybe I was lucky, but I was playing on a mid 70's Miraphone CC by 8th grade and was playing a phenomenal F tuba by the middle of my freshman year at ASU with Mr. P.

Though I would find it hard to believe that there are any schools requiring incoming freshman to show proficiency in CC, I'm sure it can't hurt. Like a previous poster said though, talent is talent, and a good teacher should recognize it for what it is, regardless of the key of the horn being played.

My $0.02

bigtubadaddy wrote: I'm just babbling now. Don't listen to me.

No problem!

The high end military bands are heavily populated with CC tubas as well.The lower the level of band,the more BBb's you see.Of course alot of those CC players will still have to play a BBb souserfone....

I would imagine that it would be far more common to see teachers (not the institution) require CC at some point during a performance degree... not necessarily required on the audition to be accepted.

What would seem to make sense is once accepted and during study the ability to sound as good as possible on whatever is the student's first choice of key, and the ability to play another keyed tuba, whatever that other key might be!!

Any that require proficiency on CC, much less F/Eb, are merely limiting the applicants that CAN apply. It would be interesting to have someone go in and absolutely blow the socks off on a BBb, and get admitted. What kind of lawsuits could there be from someone who was less skilled on CC?

heck, I did start playing CC in early undergrad, but had never even SEEN an F until grad school. Right now, that's all that I really have as far as useable horns. Funny how that worked out.

oops...sorryh for the dupe

When I auditioned in the summer of 2005 I can remember asking Don Little (UNT) and Dr. Wass (Texas Tech) about this subject. They both RECOMMENDED that I get a CC during the summer or, at the latest, before my sophomore year in college. I'm sure it wouldn't have mattered that much if I would have played better thought...

Sometimes teacher's want all the students on CC because it's easier to tune instruments of the same pitch. That being said, I've definitely played with BBb players who are easier to tune to than some CC players.

Also, if the teacher plays CC, the CC fingerings are probably the ones they are most familiar with...

Perhaps the teacher thinks/believes/knows that they will be a more effective teacher if the student is on CC.

I don't necessarily agree with everything that I've said, but would like for you guys to take these factors into consideration.

Note: if you're a fabulous BBb player, you won't really have many major problems getting where you want to go. You may have to work harder to get it. In my opinion, life is generally easier on CC.

The question is: what is the reason behind such a requirement?

If the reason is to say that IF you're serious, then you should be able to play multiple keyed instruments, so that that is NOT a limiting factor in your development as a musician, then yes, I'd agree. I disagree that the exact key specifications are necessary, but then, I'd say that if you don't want to do it simply becasue you're lazy and don't like HARD WORK, than cool! That's just more work for the REAL tubists...

Likewise, if it's just an arbitrary key specification that was made years ago, then I'm with bloke in waving to the best future buggy whip makers...

Wow! You go, Doc. I couldn't have said it better or agree any more, (i.e., don't expect me to fuel your CC fetish.) I'm paying and I'm calling the shots. Get over it.
(Let me play a little BBb for ya. )

A lot of it (not just at IU) may stem from the fact that "back in the day" (perhaps when a lot of instructor aged dudes were young and impressionable) BBb just were not made as well as most CC horns.

Of course, today, there are tons of different horns in all four keys that are exellent. But if its the teachers studio and he wants all CC, its his call.

A friend of mine is at UT Knoxville and is having issues cause his prof. wants him to have a CC by X date. That seems sort of lame. He has a BBb and is pretty darn good on it...

But the key of the horn doesn't really matter, its the dude (or dudette!) putting the air into that does.

Is it wrong for someone who wants to be taken seriously to be expected to be proficient in all 4 keys? Why not? (Proficient=acceptable, not meaning perfectly spectacular in all 4 keys)

Even if you don't have access to all 4 keys, you can still figure it out. Transposition should be required!

Up until now, I have managed to conjure up the mental capacity to learn 3. BBb growing up, CC when I got my own (because I wanted a CC), and F eventually. Now that I am in a brass band, I would like to use it as an opportunity to learn Eb as well. I just got a clunker to fool around with, so it may be fun.

Why can't we be expected to be versatile enough for all of it?

As a pre-requisite, it seems silly to expect certain things about equipment such as key. But once in, I would not only hope that my teacher wishes me to learn other keys, I would expect it!

I remember when I auditioned for the Army band program, I took my C tuba and played the music put in front of me. The proctor told me I played everything wrong--my fingerings were completely off. I told him that I was playing a C tuba and that confused him so much he gave me a perfect score. (I auditioned for the First Sergeant of the band at Fort Ord in 1978.)

I never had to learn C or F tuba but I would get to work and do it if I had to. A lifetime in music has me going places and playing music and instruments I never dreamed of early on (even lead singing).
It has been fun and well worth the effort.

sc_curtis wrote:Is it wrong for someone who wants to be taken seriously to be expected to be proficient in all 4 keys? Why not? (Proficient=acceptable, not meaning perfectly spectacular in all 4 keys)

Even if you don't have access to all 4 keys, you can still figure it out. Transposition should be required!

I would think (although that gets me into trouble) that by virtue of being a performance major the ABILITY to transpose would be assumed (via a lot of hard work). I would also figure that versatility would be expected and easier to come by as a facilitation of your practice regime.


I have a hard time associating this versatility and ability to transpose and switching keys with a requirement to play a certain pitched tuba. It would stand to reason that with the ability to transpose, that almost any keyed tuba could be facilitated by someone trying to get their degree in it (as long as an underdeveloped embouchure for the range wasn't an issue).


(not saying a BBb tuba player should be able to pick up a G tuba and be a virtuoso, but saying that his ability to overcome these obstacles would be very small if he was a serious performance student)




---just realized how sexist that sounded, replace he with she if need be---