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the older ones had a 16.5" bell, the newer a 17.5"bell.This change makes a difference in the focus and color of the horn. Not earth shaking,but some difference...

I've seen quite a variety of Mirafone 186's. Some have nickel outer side tubes while others are plain brass. There have also been some changes to the width of the rotors and the size of the rotor bearings. And... of course, there have been a wide variety of linkages. Materials-wise... I can pretty much tell whether a Miraphone is pre-70's by the 'feel' of the materials and the fit of the parts. As someone has already mentioned, the bells have changed size a bit. There haven't been any real major changes in the horns that I can spot but I think just the small subtle changes have made some difference in the way the Miraphones respond. The small changes have been just the normal evolution in manufacturing and weren't done to make things better... only cheaper and easier to manufacture.

I see very little difference between 'student' and 'professional' horns other than the care that is taken on the assembly bench.

The "S" student model horns lack nickel-silver trim on the valve tubing and slides and (I think) also the bell garland. Short version: it is plainer looking. Not sure about assembly/QC differences. Some people think these "S" models have a darker sound, I wouldn't know since my 187 has purty nickel-silver trim.

I have an old one and a new one... The old one from the sixties and my new one I bought in 2002... The newer ones to me are much better horns and I am a mirafone fan... The ones out of the 80's and 90's are hit and miss in my opinion... But that is just my 2cents

I have totally opposite reactions--I've played few 70s and later 186s that seem to be anywhere NEAR the playing quality of 60s into very early 70s. I have no idea what changed, but suddenly they seemed like completely different instruments were made starting in about 1973, or so.

Two of the best playing tubas I've ever encountered are late 60s CC 186s. Amazing.

It all depends on the year. They're all similar but there have been changes over the years. I see that Taylor in SD even offers the "S" model with the nickel garland on the bell.

My 186 has the larger bell, a smaller, non-fancy garland, the presto valves, synthetic bumpers and cork and wraps the fourth valve slide to the back for easy access while playing. It is quite a bit heavier -a good 2 or 3 pounds- than my friend's pro model 186.

I think the older Mirafones have a good reputation because so many of them play well. Playing an older model was what made me want to buy my newer one.

I thought the 185 CC was such a fantastic horn. I wish I hadn't had to sell mine to afford my Yorkbrunner in the early nineties. I miss it very much.

I wonder why Mirafone never brought them back. I know they don't sit on the bell, well, but they were great sounding instruments.

WakinAZ wrote:The "S" student model horns lack nickel-silver trim on the valve tubing and slides and (I think) also the bell garland. Short version: it is plainer looking. Not sure about assembly/QC differences. Some people think these "S" models have a darker sound, I wouldn't know since my 187 has purty nickel-silver trim.

The 186S was a moving target. Later ones had the garland on the bell and lacked only the fancy engraving on the valve top and bottoms.

tubafreaks7 wrote:Any other 186-R models out there? Or is mine the only one? It has a detatchable recording bell. I'd like to find an upright bell for it but am not ready to sacrifice the forward bell.

I've had a couple of the detachable recording bell 186 Mirafones. As I understand it, Mirafone never sold the extra bells. It was always an either/or situation. I've built upright bells for them.

I still have a blurb about the upright bells on my 'projects' page.

Chuck(G) wrote:The 186S was a moving target. Later ones had the garland on the bell and lacked only the fancy engraving on the valve top and bottoms.

Right. The early student models didn't have a bell garland, but later ones did. The only consistent difference I've seen is that the "professional" models have lots of fancy engraving on the front and rear valve casings, while the student models don't.

Here's a picture of a mid-70's 186 pro model (which probably was before the time the student models were made, which I recall appeared in the early 80's):



Note the bell garland, nickel outer slides and nickel trim. You can't see the engraving, but it's there. The adjustible thumb ring was a later addition that wasn't available when this horn was new. The linkages are, of course, different.

Rick "noting also the 70's US import 'Mirafone' labeling" Denney

I have a TE-186, made in 1997 for Tuba Exchange. It has a 17.75" bell, no nickel on the valve slides, no fancy engraving, but it has the bell garland and a nickel lead pipe.