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Hi:

I got my tuba back from Herr Oberloh on Friday and it looks really nice. My little nephew who saw it before it was repaired exclaimed "It's GOLD! It's GOLDEN, Uncle Jeffrey!" It does look pretty good and Dan did a nice job of making it look good. Now it is up to me....

To refresh: it's a King 1140 3/4 BBflat. I have a Conn Helleberg mouthpiece and the basic Rubank book. I've played trumpet, French horn, flugelhorn and baritone horn for years but it's the trumpet and flugelhorn which are the most current.

I had been buzzing the mouthpiece daily for 15-20 min. while watching the news on TV for a couple of weeks in preparation for getting the horn out of sickbay. I plugged in the mouthpiece and was able to get the open B-flat (second line) fine but have not been able to get the open F below the bottom line of the staff. I can get it by fingering 123 but not open. (Tuner sez so.) I guess I'm having a hard time relaxing my lip enough to get the open F. I've only been trying for a couple of hours and can get the open F for a millisecond or so before "blowing out" (no buzz at the attempted tone) so is this just a matter of time or is there some sort of accessory I should buy or should Dan work on the horn some more? Any helpful hints from the Freak Jury?

Jeff.

P.S. The accessory and more repair cracks are just BS I hope you know...

P.S.S. I am getting some photos from Dan sooooon so will post them. It does look nice.

It takes time. Quite a bit of it. The tuba is a very frustrating horn to play. I think it is because such a large area of the lips and jaws (yes, jaws) have to be exactly right for everything to work right. So, you have to go through the slow process of training your subconscious to get everything in the right place. A lot of people never get it right. But a lot of people do, so don't give up. I'm still working on it.

I can't tell anyone how I do it. It's kind of like telling someone how to ride a bicycle: You get on, start pedaling, and fall over. When you stop falling over, you know how to ride a bicycle.

The thing that worked the most for me was: Focus on getting the right sound. The "hold your lips this way, etc." didn't work for me. But ... for what it's worth ... the concept that probably got me somewhere in the ballpark of what my face should be like was to think about Yoda when he is disgusted. That, and starting with smaller mouthpieces -- Bach 25, Conn 7B, Yamaha 66D4 (which I still use) -- getting them right before moving to bigger mouthpieces if you think you need to move to bigger.

I don't recall if you ever said how much experience you have with a tuba or what your age is. It might be time for you to seek a tuba teacher and grab a few lessons to get you off to a good start.

TubaTinker wrote:I don't recall if you ever said how much experience you have with a tuba or what your age is. It might be time for you to seek a tuba teacher and grab a few lessons to get you off to a good start.

Well, I played the sousaphone for 15 min. as a goof in a school skit in the 8th grade and am 50 years old. I played the baritone for a number of years and the French horn a few as well. Basically, I'm a trumpet player.

Yes, I'm surprised that I can't make it work right off. I kind of expected to make some sort of a tone and then work to improve. I know I can learn because so many others have been able to do so. the band director at the school where I work has offered to give me a few lessons and it might be a good idea to take him up on it.

Jeff

TubaTinker wrote:I don't recall if you ever said how much experience you have with a tuba or what your age is. It might be time for you to seek a tuba teacher and grab a few lessons to get you off to a good start.

I'll second that. A more experienced player/teacher will be able to tell you quickly what kind of playing condition your horn is in. Further, it is easy to get started doing some things wrong. With practice, doing it wrong will become ingrained, and you will find it to be a great effort to correct things. On the other hand, if you get at least a few lessons in the beginning, and an occasional lesson later, you will avoid bad habits, and probably have much more fun.

Anyway, let me welcome you into the fraternity of tuba players!

Cheers,
Allen

The Big Ben wrote:... the band director at the school where I work has offered to give me a few lessons and it might be a good idea to take him up on it. Jeff

That would be great! And... by-the-way... welcome to the tuba.

the open B-flat (second line) fine but have not been able to get the open F below the bottom line

Hi and welcome,

As I don´t really know what you´ve been doing and what your musical resources are:
are you convinced You´re in the right octave? (Sorry if this sounds silly. If it does, never mind).

When you play 2nd-line Bb and then the next higher partial, which one is it, 3rd line d or 4th line f ?
If it is the latter, you´re trying to play one octave too low.
THAT would make it REAL hard to play the F.
Remember: the Bb below the 2nd ledger line below the staff corresponds to "low c" one line below the treble-clef-staff on trumpet, as far as partials are concerned.

Other than that:
the F right below the staff should be fine on valve #4 (if you have a 4th valve) and insignificantly sharp on 1-3. 123 should be slightly flat.

Welcome, Jeff to the tuba experience.
I started off on tuba and developed soft and supple lips (just ask the girls lucky enough to get a smoochin' from me). Trumpet later gave me a problem with high range that took years to develop before Bell's Palsey took it all away.
A trumpet embochere is small and tight. A tuba embochere is larger and more relaxed. Getting down as low as you can go with a big, full sound is the hard part. Having played mid to upper brass for years, it will take time for you lip muscles to adapt and the idea of opening you jaw a bit for a fuller sound will go against your prior training.
Have a tuba teacher or competent tuba player put your horn through it's paces so you can be sure the tuba won't hold you back.
Enjoy the world of lower brass that can appeal to your basser instincts.

Welcome to the trenches.

If you ever find yourself in Saigon, Vietnam, needing something to do, come on over and I'll help you find yourself on the tuba.

I would do a couple of things that were suggested. Take the band director up on the lessons, make sure the tuba is in playing shape, and look into the mouthpiece situation. I have played trombone and french horn as my primaries in high school and college, although I've dabbled on the tuba immediately after college. I went from french horn in the spring to tuba in the fall, and used a Bach 18 mouthpiece.

The Big Ben wrote: Basically, I'm a trumpet player.
Yes, I'm surprised that I can't make it work right off. I kind of expected to make some sort of a tone and then work to improve. the band director at the school where I work has offered to give me a few lessons and it might be a good idea to take him up on it.
Jeff

Be careful to avoid a trumpet player's mentality that almost always exists: I can't tell you how often I have heard trumpet players say something to the effect that" hell, all you guys (tubas) need to do is blow hard and have lots of air and you can play the tuba. We need to ______________ (fill in the blanks!)
The tuba is a different instrument from the trumpet; what you do to play a trumpet is not the same as for a tuba. Yes, there is a certain crossover, but just playing a trumpet well is not going to make you an automatic tuba player and vice versa.
I'd take the band director up on his offer and, if you like it, then look for a TUBA teacher, not a clarinet/trumpet/flute teacher, but one who knows the problems you will face. Good luck! Welcome to the dark side![/u]

scottw wrote:

The Big Ben wrote: Basically, I'm a trumpet player.
Yes, I'm surprised that I can't make it work right off. I kind of expected to make some sort of a tone and then work to improve. the band director at the school where I work has offered to give me a few lessons and it might be a good idea to take him up on it.
Jeff

Be careful to avoid a trumpet player's mentality that almost always exists: I can't tell you how often I have heard trumpet players say something to the effect that" hell, all you guys (tubas) need to do is blow hard and have lots of air and you can play the tuba. We need to ______________ (fill in the blanks!)
The tuba is a different instrument from the trumpet; what you do to play a trumpet is not the same as for a tuba. Yes, there is a certain crossover, but just playing a trumpet well is not going to make you an automatic tuba player and vice versa.
I'd take the band director up on his offer and, if you like it, then look for a TUBA teacher, not a clarinet/trumpet/flute teacher, but one who knows the problems you will face. Good luck! Welcome to the dark side![/u]

I hear ya. It really is a different beast. One of my best friends played the tuba in HS and went on to play it in military bands (USCG boot camp band) and I'm not completely unaware of the differences. The number of valid open tones is one of the things which surprises me- I hadn't looked at the fingering chart until I started playing. Lots o' lipping with the tuba!

I didn't expect to make a good sound or an especially in tune sound but was expecting to be able to make the first note in the method book (F below the bottom line). That's coming. I've been getting it by fingering 1-3 and play all to other notes that are introduced- A, G, C. I'm getting so I can almost get the open F and it seems to help to push 1-3 when I'm failing the open tone. I have an electronic tuner so have a pretty good idea of what notes I'm hitting. The method also is introducing a E flat below the line and I can kinda get it.

I'll make a fuller report sometime next week when I really have something to say. A half-hour of whole notes a day will get some results and, before I know it, I'll be able to play a tune!

Thanks to all for your comments.

Jeff

Be carefull with that 1140! Mine gave me a numb right thumb for several weeks from the thumb ring. Also, make sure all your slides are in the right positions, the 1st and 3rd slides can be swapped around.

This is from a horn player who learned tuba, and who has watched other horn players make their first attempt at tuba.

With being accustomed to a small mouthpiece, your lips simply are not going to relax enough to play low on tuba until you train them to do so. Every small-mouthpiece player I've EVER seen who attempts tuba gets what I will call "fpffing noises" when they try to play low; the low notes just don't speak. It's a lip flexibility problem.

The tuba mouthpiece will stop vibration at the points on the rim where your lips are in contact; and a small mouthpiece, like trumpet or horn, will stop vibration at the points on the rim where IT contacts your lips. So your lips are trained to not vibrate outside of the circle of the rim on a trumpet mouthpiece, and they aren't going to suddenly forget that training.

I'd suggest a modicum of free buzzing in the range you are trying to play, to loosen things up. (I realize some people are violently against free buzzing but I can free buzz the entire range of the tuba, play pieces that way, and truly I can find no harm in it.) Then I suggest playing glisses on the mouthpiece, starting in the range that works for you and seeing how low you can go each time down. Up and down, up and down, slowly. This will loosen you up too. However, the mouthpiece alone does not have the same resistance as it does when connected to the tuba, and you might find that the glisses don't translate over completely to the instrument, in terms of ability to play certain pitches.

Of great value is note-bending; note-bending will help your low range. Once again, start on the lowest note you can play well and bend the pitch down. Work on bending it down a fourth and back up again, then go down a half step and bend down and up again.

Over time, perhaps not that long, a few weeks, you should find that you have the lip flexibility to play the low range, and then you can work on tone.

MA