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I have a MW 45SLP and wish I would have got a rotary model instead.
Playing around in the low register with long piston valves isn't that much fun after all.

So, what's out there worth buying?
Anyone wants to trade?

Cheers,

Sylvain

Perhaps you'd like a Meinl Weston 45-SLZ

It's been said that it's the rotary counterpart of the SLP.

I've heard nothing but good things about them, and although I have played a few of them, I don't feel that I've spent enough time with one to really comment much on how it plays.

I went from owning a really good 45-SLP to now having a great B&S F. Honestly, I think the low register on my 20-yr old B&S is WAY better than the SLP ever was....and maybe that has something to do with learning how to blow a German F tuba. Yeah, the 45-SLP is technically a German F, but it played more like the 822 that I owned before it....except with more color. But next to the B&S, there was no comparison in the quality of the sound.

B&S is making this model again (small, graduated bore) as the 'Anniversary Model' or something like that. I'd imagine it would be a very good instrument.....I find the PT-10's and 15's a little woofy for me.

The Miraphone Firebird F is also a really nice instrument. A little on the smaller side, but able to make a big sound when needed...and a rocking low register.

The new Meinl Weston Baer F should be interesting as well. The nice thing is that we as tuba players have so many more options today for high quality instruments than even 5-10 years ago.

Good luck in your search.

Best,
Josh Wirt

joshwirt wrote:I went from owning a really good 45-SLP to now having a great B&S F. Honestly, I think the low register on my 20-yr old B&S is WAY better than the SLP ever was....and maybe that has something to do with learning how to blow a German F tuba. Yeah, the 45-SLP is technically a German F, but it played more like the 822 that I owned before it....except with more color. But next to the B&S, there was no comparison in the quality of the sound.

B&S is making this model again (small, graduated bore) as the 'Anniversary Model' or something like that. I'd imagine it would be a very good instrument.....I find the PT-10's and 15's a little woofy for me.....

I might be wrong, but I don't think that B&S ever stopped making the 3100 and 3099, they just weren't imported to the US for some time.

http://www.vogtlaendische-musik.de/tuba ... f-tuba.htm

I have to agree with Bloke here on a couple of things....
First, how can we continue to accept the C in the staff on some of these F tubas? My Wilsson and 45slp had to played 4th valve and that just plain sucks. We accept this, but would we pick a CC tuba on which we had to use 4th valve on G below the staff??? Seems to be typical of piston F tubas. The B&S F tubas seem to be the only ones who have solved this issue. My PT10 is AWESOME on that note.
Second, the quality of sound on the "hot item" can be a little mechanical/metalic (this is the opinion of a string player who is VERY close to me). However, I think the preference of sound is strictly personal and insignificant in the overall picture. I pick horns based on sound but weigh evenness of scale and intonation much higher on the priority list. Some of the new PT models are quite nice in sound quality to my ear. Others hate the sound of these horns.
I'm still waiting to play a certain JBL Classics F tuba (a very close copy of the old Symphonie). Heard great things from the two people who own them.

The "in" F tuba is an E-flat tuba.

I play a MW 45 SLP. I do have to agree that I had to learn how to play it properly. The intonation was a little problem but I've put int he work and gotten through it, same with the low register.

I have to say that when playing B&S f tubas I felt alittle more at home and didn't have to work as hard.

I do love my horn and it works great FOR ME, but I would have to say to anyone looking for an F to look at a B&S or and Miraphone 181.

Had my 46 technically overhauled this fall, and upon picking up my horn I took the time to test-play what MW had in their showroom. Not that I´m that much of an expert, but I DO know when I play one that is superior to the horn I own.

I really liked the small Fs they had (They have this 5RV "student" model and a piston version thereof called "282", I think). I´d LOVE to have the latter with 6 valves.

They had a "Baer F"-prototype that probably is not for amateurs (me, that is), and I figured my CC-tuba still was better at the music this horn is designed for.

The other large-to-huge F-tubas (SLP,SLZ, QHL...) didn´t create ENOUGH (!!) difference to my good-ole 46 to make me consider a trade.

A roughly 20 y/o B&S we got out of the community-band´s attic recently sure made me nervous, but I simply can´t get used to that 4-semitone-5th valve.

It's interesting to hear all the responses.

A few years back at the Army conference, Dave Brown played the VW on a smaller and older B&S. Now, that was the right sound. Focused, clean and beautiful. Mind you, Dave would sound amazing regardless of what he holds in his hands but he had the right concept and tool.

And No, the perfect F isn't an Eb but that's another topic.

Design plays a great factor in how F tubas (and other types of tubas) play in response, flexibility, intonation, etc.,

BUT there are DOGS of every make and design. On the contrary, I have many times been surprised to find a really happening horn that I would never thought of as being good at all because of its design.

I have a MW182 (little guy) that just rocks, but can't support our brass section at loud dynamics below D below the staff. An unfortunate solder release incident made me have to quickly borrow Morris Kainuma's 45SLP for the rest of a MET performance of Berlioz's Les Troyens (thank you, Hector for having so MANY tubas in the stage bands),; the response from my colleauges and Levine was so positive, I went to check out these horns further.

When I got to Dillon Music, I had heard that the SLPs in silver were a bit lighter and more responsive, but I tried them all anyway. Lo and behold, I kept coming back to a lacquer one. So, I got it.

These are great horns, despite the sharp C in the staff, and I wish I could afford to keep mine.

(shameless plug?)

Chris Hall

Mike Johnson wrote: I've played many years on different German Fs and love them EXCEPT for the low C!'

Must have read this a dozen times, but what does it mean?

Is this just about the obvious difference in valve tubing required for the note? I mean, we would take for granted that in the low range, notes that take a lot of valve tubing will be less positive, right?

So according this theory, if we replace the F tuba with an Eb, we'll hate the low Bb. But maybe not care as much, because playing in a context where low C is more often an important note?

Or is there something peculiar to F tubas and C, that doesn't so generally apply to Eb tubas and Bb? Maybe just with some tuba designs that happen to be very common among F tubas?

How are the notes below C, on these F tubas - even worse?

I have to ask, because I haven't really noticed it on my Czech F helicon. It's thinner at C than my much bigger Eb helicon, but you'd expect as much.

Have you played german type F:s? The low C, and the range around it... doesn´t exist. But people learn to deal with it. Those notes come with time, but they never feel very good to play. Below C, for instance B flat and range below that is again playable. Why´s that? I haven´t heard a decent explanation. The weird thing is that the problem is the same with different style and different brand instruments.

There is though some instruments that don´t have that problem: Yamahas and Miraphone Firebird (I´ve played one for probably about 5 minutes, and I judge the thing according that).

By the way, to the subject: I´ve been pretty satisfied with my B&S Apollo. I don´t know if I can recommend it though... It took me about two years to learn to play it. I´ve had to find quite a few alternative fingerings to deal with the tricky intonation. But the sound is great, and it´s a great instrument for many types of playing: Ensembles, wind orchstras and also solo playing - if you like a dark large sound in solos. I do.

the best F tuba I have ever played is the new (old) JBL Classics horn from B&S. I don't know if it is available in the states, but it is a pre-Parentucci F tuba that has been redesigned with the help of Jens Bjorn Larsen. Playing it against the drone tones, there isn't a note on this horn that I have "to go to" and the low C rocks. The easiest F tuba to learn to play that I have ever found - because you don't have to LEARN to play it. It's what I call a "grab and go" horn. And what a SOUND!

Just my $0.02 (when the hell did they take the "cents" sign off the keyboard??)

Roger

Roger Lewis wrote:
Just my $0.02 (when the hell did they take the "cents" sign off the keyboard??)

my 2¢ on the subject - hit option 4, should get your your ¢ thingie.

Sylvano wrote:I have a MW 45SLP and wish I would have got a rotary model instead.
Playing around in the low register with long piston valves isn't that much fun after all.

So, what's out there worth buying?

PT-10/15/16 if you practice
Yamaha 822 if you don't

just my opinion.

WoodSheddin wrote:PT-10/15/16 if you practice
Yamaha 822 if you don't

This resonantes strongly with me.

My old B&S makes a lovely characteristic sound and provides mountains of projection, and the low C is quite manageable, as long as I play it every day. But when it sits for weeks without being played, it's as unruly as a teenager.

The Yamaha 621, on the other hand, does its job without a whimper. Mine is dead in tune, and the low range plays as well as any 4/4 contrabass. But the sound doesn't have that characteristic F tuba quality, and it won't punch through a large ensemble unless you use a shallow mouthpiece and go trombone-like. I use the 621 for quintet because I can ignore it for a month and still play everything in our book passably well.

The B&S is less forgiving of being ignored.

I greatly appreciate having both.

Rick "whose B&S Symphonie has the old, small-bore first and fifth" Denney

I had that Yamaha 621 also. Basically a good instrument, the intonation was pretty good and all the notes were there... But still it was too small for most purposes. Or that´s what I felt. In the end I almost gave it away, since there aren´t huge markets for different tubas in this country with 5 million people...

off topic: I was surprised when i heard that in America there´s 500 000 people with finnish roots... Quite a lot, 10% of finnish population...

Ive got a firebirds that everyone loves. hands down. its the "in" f tuba now. stop giviung the B&S guys money for their overpriced horns... give it to miraphone... play a firebird, and youll see.

During my years in europe, I heard LOTS of tuba players playing F, and I can't say I ever thought they lacked too much in the lower register. True, they couldn't play F with the same tone quality on the low CC, BBb (and lower) as one could on contrabass tubas, but the sound and response was always there. I think part of the problem in the 'states is that we didn't "grow up" playing the F like they did. When we hear a tuba, especially in the low range, we subconsciously expect to hear that BBb or CC kind of sound, which an F is probably going to have, all else being equal. Now, if you began in elementary school on an F, and played 90% of the time of F, you probably would have a different concept/expectation of sound, don't you think? And a different idea of how those notes are supposed to respond . . .

Bob1062 wrote:I've always wondered about that.

What do kids and amateurs play in countries that have a tradition of playing F tubas?

The amateurs I knew/know in Germany play BBb (more than 4, but a very informal poll in my mind). And certainly when I would see guys playing sousa's or helicons in a dixie setting they were BBb's.
Peace.
ASG