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I went and played with a different orchestra this last week and noted that every time there was more than a few bars rest the 1st trombone, put down his instrument and picked up and started reading a magazine.

I have seen this many times before by both amateur and professional brass players (never wind, or string players). People pay good money to listen to orchestras - I pay good money to go to concerts. Why would anyone want to be sitting in the middle of an orchestra reading? Do they have no appreciation of the music? Can't they appreciate the whole picture, rather than just their own small part in the piece?

I enjoy listening to the live performance and can often get hints on phrasing and such like just by listening. After all that figure may be in my part further on. If I am not playing in a movement, I will go out front to listen, but love the music and want to be involved.

Jonathan "who cannot understand why musicians would not wish to listen to the music"

In this orchestra, reading in rehearsals is frowned upon.

However, during tacet movements, we are usually free to leave the stage. During open rehearsals, (which are usually dress rehearsals) we often stay on stage just as if it were a concert.

In my opinion, this is a pretty good balance. Reading on stage is a bit disrespectful to one's colleagues.

Eric Carlson, Philadelphia Orchestra

Of course, if you can see the glossy cover, that's one thing.

But as mentioned above, I wonder how much of the "reading" is actually following along with a score to study the interpretation of the other parts of the piece.

For example, in a university setting, a lot of grad students are actually conducting or musicologist majors, not necessarily performance majors, so they definitely will be studying and following along the score during their tacit moments.

And I thought it only happened in the orchestra I play in.

iiipopes wrote:Of course, if you can see the glossy cover, that's one thing.

But as mentioned above, I wonder how much of the "reading" is actually following along with a score to study the interpretation of the other parts of the piece.

For example, in a university setting, a lot of grad students are actually conducting or musicologist majors, not necessarily performance majors, so they definitely will be studying and following along the score during their tacit moments.

I totally agree, following the score is good, but reading a magazine is not - particular if they miss an entry (which is a cue on my part) as a result!!!

Reading during orchestra rehearsals and/or concerts is a controversial subject. I've seen players is some of the world's top orchestras who routinely read during rehearsals and some who even read during concerts. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what they do as long as they perform to their expected level and aren't distracting me either as an audience member or as a player (ie - if I'm in the audience and I can see someone reading, then that's bad). If someone is reading next to me in a concert/rehearsal and is constantly asking me where we are or picking up their instrument at the last possible second due to not knowing where we are, then that is bad.
As a general rule, if you are lucky enough to be playing in an orchestra, then don't read because it will be frowned upon by various people. Even if the tenured player next to you is reading, you shouldn't read. If you are lucky enough to be a tenured player then you can read, but beware that if you mess up at some point (as everyone does) then your reading could be looked upon as the reason for your screwups and that's not good.

As far as people who are reading not being "involved" with the performance - I doubt those people would be anymore involved with the performance if they weren't reading.

I've never seen anyone reading during rests in any of the bands I play in. Being an amateur eupher, I've never played in an orchestra.

But I did see an oboe player periodically reading her book during rehearsal in the chamber orchestra we hired to accompany our church choir in rehearsing Handel's Messiah. As I was sitting in the choir, I thought this looked very unprofessional.

I remember in college we had about 3 or 4 players in some of our bands, and occasionally we got a piece that had hideously large measures of rest. No one would have thought about reading, but it was at this time that we realized that the Besson tubas the school supplied were the perfect size to lay across your lap, and gently fold you hands upon the side and rest your head...........everything worked well as long as the designated counter woke us up in time............

Rob

Some years ago during rehearsals for my church's annual Christmas concert the tuba player, an occaisional contributor to this forum, read the entire Fodor's Switzerland during rests. His activities were obvious to the choir which was seated above and behind for the 3 rehersals. After the first, I was approached by several of the choir members complaining about his reading, and wanting me as a member of the church to confront him. I explained to them that I would not say anything to him unless he missed an entrance. I never had to say a word. I even tried to fake him out a couple of times but he was to smart to be fooled. As long as he played his part, and he did very well, I refused to be concerned. However, I have noticed that there has been someone else in the tuba chair on occaision since then so maybe reading is not a wise choice if you want repeat gigs.

Reading among brass player in an Orchestra is often inexplicable, but a fact of life.

You sit for hours of rests on end. You can listen to the Maestro yell at the violas for not following, or...

If you are prepared, then you know when to be alert, when you can doze aurally, and, more importantly, when to look alert.

For some people, it's just like trying to see how late they can show up, and still be within the contract.

I never personally thought that reading on stage was kosher. After all, you're being paid for the ENTIRE rehearsal, not by the note. Just the same, I would RARELY leave the stage, even in a tacet movement or work. You never know what's going to happen, and you may learn something despite yourself.

Which brings me to the rehearsal of a work that did not have double basses. Since it was close to break time, they thought they would get an early start. Sure enough, the Maetro concluded ahead to time, and decided to start a piece that was not scheduled. No basses. Since there was no tuba scored in the piece, I went out to look for them, along with a couple of other non-players. Found them at a bar.

After rehearsal, the Maetro let them have it. As head of the Player's Committee, I had an obligation to try to defend them, although there WAS NO POSSIBLE DEFENSE. Thankfully, all the Maestro did was send them home with their heads in their hands and a wink to me.

But for the next rehearsal, the other seekers and I had shirts made that read "BASS SEARCH COMMITTEE".

I don't have a problem doing it during a rehearsal. The Pops orchestra I am in often plays music with no tuba parts. Many of the Leroy Andreson pieces for example do not have tuba parts, so rather than listening to the orchestra play Jazz Pizzicato for the 25th time, I will read something.

I would not think of doing it in a concert however. I think that would be pretty bush league.

ken k

Rick F wrote:I did see an oboe player periodically reading her book during rehearsal in the chamber orchestra we hired to accompany our church choir in rehearsing Handel's Messiah. As I was sitting in the choir, I thought this looked very unprofessional.

I agree that this looks unprofessional. I do not regularly play in a full orchestra, only with my church's small orchestra, but I have had the occasional opportunity to play with a real orchestra(as a sub). It is in that setting that I have witnessed the magazine & book reading. Personally, I would not try reading during rests. I have enough trouble counting the rests correctly as it is. Let's see. Was that 65 or 66? I tend to agree with those that have said it is OK as long as they don't screw up. At least, I believe that to be true in a regular, closed rehearsal. Anytime the general public can observe this, I believe it is unprofessional.

snufflelufigus wrote:I prefer Playboy, GENT, Cherrie... I just look at the pretty pictures so I don't have to think too hard. It can be hard counting 500-2-3-4, 501-2-3-4, 502-2-3-4, etc... I'm more likely to get thrown off reading actual words and sentences...

I believe I might be affected quite differently. In fact, "reading" those magazines would likely make it very hard to count rests.

What if it's a tuba-related magazine? Does that make it less unprofessional?

snufflelufigus wrote:

TubaRay wrote:

snufflelufigus wrote:I prefer Playboy, GENT, Cherrie... I just look at the pretty pictures so I don't have to think too hard. It can be hard counting 500-2-3-4, 501-2-3-4, 502-2-3-4, etc... I'm more likely to get thrown off reading actual words and sentences...

I believe I might be affected quite differently. In fact, "reading" those magazines would likely make it very hard to count rests.

I make it through the rests some how... but I always seem to play sharper when viewing such material during a rehearsal!!!

Hmmm! Interesting phenomena. This may require a more scientific study in order to figure things out. Any volunteers out there?

Even if you're not reading, you learn to be prepared. The bass trombonist that I played with used to delight in suddenly bringing up his horn a bar or two early and making a big inhale as if he was going to play just to see if he could get you to bite. In fact, the whole trombone section would do it at times just to see if they could catch the trumpets out.

Then I remember the Maestro cuing the Principle Trombone in a concert, only to get a "no" shake of the head. A couple of bars later, another cue, and another "no". A few more bars, yet another cue, a "yes", and he came in at the right moment. We could all hadly play when it was our turn.

Oh, those rehearsals...

I only read where it says "TACET" on the part. I bring historical magazines--nothing controversial (and not usually musical, either). I never do this without the approval of the conductor. I tell him or her it keeps me awake during the tacit sections.

Also, I never read in a concert. No-Doz works great.

I like to keep my jobs.

You all got your noses way up in the air. I'm sorry, but if we're rehearsing... say... Tchaik 4, with 2 movements of tacet, or even better, the Mahler transcription of Beethoven 9 with 16 total bars of playing, you can expect to find me in the back row reading my book, patiently waiting for my turn to play. Of course there are inappropriate times... but if you use your head you'll be fine.

I have yet to have anyone say anything about my choices of when reading is appropriate.

Neptune wrote: Why would anyone want to be sitting in the middle of an orchestra reading?

Because counting endless measures of rests waiting to play a few notes is a crushing bore? Because you can only contemplate the advanced performance degree and years of prep that got you this job for so long before you lose it and go after the oboe player? Because it's a really good book? You forgot your Blackberry and can't post to TubeNet?

Jim 'Rests? I'm lucky to catch a breath here and there' Wagner