Hand/finger pain.

bort · Post by **bort** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:33 am

I had the exact same problem on my 1291.

Actually, the throw on the 1291 pistons is kind of short...I think it's the heavy springs that make it more difficult. Thanks to Roger Lewis, I fixed this by swapping the springs with Yamaha euphonium (or tuba) springs. Made all the difference in the world to me.

Posaune2 · Post by **Posaune2** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:57 am

I have similar problems with my euph. I tend to practice the horn only intermittently, but the stretches when I practice are pretty intense.(It is my doubling instrument, not my main horn)

I recently started using a tuba stand from BBC for practice sessions, which takes some of the weight of the horn off my right hand.

I also have a set of lighter weight springs that I can pop in there when I know I will be doing a lot of practicing at home. I put the stronger springs in for rehearsals and performances, just to be absolutely sure that the valves won't stick.

MaryMacK · Post by **MaryMacK** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:00 am

I'm having kind of a similar problem with my Yamaha 822. The placement of the valves & the thumb ring forces me to strech out my fingers and have my hand in a weird angle (ouch!). I'm thinking about having my thumb ring repositioned or getting one of those valve extender thing.

ASTuba · Post by **ASTuba** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:04 am

I've had similar problems all of my life when I use a thumbring. I find that they just get in the way, and drive me nuts. Every tuba I've owned, I've had the tumbring removed, and my hand appreciates that very much.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:02 am

This is exactly why I play rotary tubas; pistons are just too hard on my hands and forearms. That info doesn't help your situation of course, but it's food for thought next time you're ready to buy a tuba.

MA

royjohn · Post by **royjohn** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:42 pm

I've only been playing euph about six months and I got a heckofa pain in the muscle between my right thumb and forefinger and in the joint at the base of my thumb recently and I only just figured out it is probably the euph playig and mouse clicking together that are putting a strain on these fingers. I've tried several things and it's getting better. I am doing some backward stretches of the hand, stretching all the fingers back at one time, doing it maybe ten or twenty times at once several times througout the day when I notice soreness. I am massaging the space between the thumb and forefinger. I also moved my thumb from under the brace tubing to on the top of it for much of my practice. I don't feel this is where it's supposed to be, but I do feel that it gives the thumb and forefinger a rest.

I have a 1975 Besson 3+1 euph and it feels pretty long throw and it has pretty strong springs. If what I'm doing now doesn't work, I might change to weaker springs. Hope these suggestions help someone else, too.

royjohn

KevinMadden · Post by **KevinMadden** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:14 am

How long have you had this problem? (i.e. how long have you had the 1291?) I had the same problem when I bought my YM, the fourth valve was pretty darn far a way and the stretch would make my hands throb after an hour or two of playing, I worked through it, and the problem went away.

thedeep42 · Post by **thedeep42** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:07 pm

i'm not really familiar with the 1291, but here are some general suggestions...

try to arrange your horn so you have the straightest wrist possible without having to strain to hold it there. straight horizontally and vertically.

try awhile to get a comfortable height off the valves so you come down on them nicely.

take breaks. even just to stand up, shake your arms out, get a drink. it's very helpful.

move or avoid thumb rings unless it fits perfectly. i had mine moved along with my thumb trigger to better fit my hand.

if the problem persists, contact a physiotherapist for stretches and exercises. it's worth the money.

also, improving circulation helps a lot. you can do that by soaking your arms in the hottest water you can stand and then plunging them into the coldest water you can stand a couple times. torture yes, but you'll feel like you have a new set of arms after.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:47 pm

thedeep42 wrote:also, improving circulation helps a lot. you can do that by soaking your arms in the hottest water you can stand and then plunging them into the coldest water you can stand a couple times. torture yes, but you'll feel like you have a new set of arms after.

Is this the Nietzsche approach to treating carpel tunnel problems?

Chriss2760 · Post by **Chriss2760** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:21 pm

Try crumpling a sheet of newspaper into a ball from the corner. It builds strength and dexterity. It takes a couple of weeks for the benefits to start showing up, but in the long run will likely resolve the issue.

Norlan Bewley · Post by **Norlan Bewley** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:54 pm

This should be helpful for hand and finger pain also:

Here is a simple exercise for carpel tunnel that I learned from a massuer at the Greenbrier spa. He showed it to me when I told him of the arm/wrist pain I was getting off and on from playing valves and trombone slide alot plus much computer use. Many in his field have to get surgery for such issues, but this helped him prevent it. Imagine the arm and hand strain of giving pro massages all day compared to playing... even alot of playing!

I hope I can describe it clearly enough verbally:

1) Take both hands and press opposing fingers, thumbs, and knuckles against each other in an isometric fashion with firm pressure. Palms do not touch. Fingers point straight up.

2) In this position, slowly rotate the hands inward so that the fingers point towards the body and hold. Rotate as far as you can without strain.

3) Still in this position, next rotate the hands outward so that the fingers point away from the body and hold. Rotate as far as you can without strain.

4) Return to the fingers pointing straight up and release.

5) Repeat as many times a day as you wish.

You will feel your forearms, wrists, and fingers invigorated as the blood rushes out from them when you release this position. This increases blood flow to these areas, flushing out lactic acid, etc and is very good for repetitive motion problems in the arms, wrists, and fingers. I have had little trouble since using it. You may find that one direction or the other offers more relief, but it is a good idea to do both directions.

I hope this is a clear enough explanation to follow. If not, please feel free to ask questions to clarify. I'm not a medical person, but I have had these problems and found this to be very useful for eliminating them without having to reduce any playing time.

Hope this helps!

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:17 am

doing it once while reading, Norlan, it already seems like it's going to be effective.

Try playing bass bone in a circus, 9 performances in 5 days...THAT is pain

Roger Lewis · Post by **Roger Lewis** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:42 am

JUST...CHANGE...THE ....SPRINGS. I recommend, from personal experience, the Yamaha euphonium springs as the lightest and the Yamaha Tuba springs as the ones to use. They are also plastic coated so there is no spring noise from them bending and rubbing against the sides of the casings. WWBW has them in stock if someone there knows where to find them.

Just my $0.02
Roger

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:48 am

My fingers never started hurting (and I use several tubas with varying tensions on the valves) until about four or five years ago. It was arthritis.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:34 pm

Indeed. Reminds me of the old joke:
"Doctor, I get a pain in my right eye when I drink coffee."
"Try taking the spoon out of the mug after you stir it."

Roger Lewis · Post by **Roger Lewis** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:59 pm

Pardon my yelling earlier, but this was starting to look like the proverbial monkey trap. You put a piece of food in the bottom of a narrow necked container and the monkey reaches in and grasps the food. Now his hand can't be pulled out of the jar and he's trapped----and all he has to do is LET GO OF THE FOOD!

Somethings are rather obvious - check out Occam's Razor - "one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything".

Roger

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:20 pm

I get hand cramps at least once during a long night of playing my top-action tuba. Fortunately, with the tuba on it's stand, I can reach around with my left hand to the valves for a tune or two until I can shake the cramps out of the right. A slower song is preferable if I have to do this.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:35 pm

tubatooter1940 wrote:I get hand cramps at least once during a long night of playing my top-action tuba. Fortunately, with the tuba on it's stand, I can reach around with my left hand to the valves for a tune or two until I can shake the cramps out of the right. A slower song is preferable if I have to do this.

To avoid the same thing with my Besson, I sit my chair at a 45 degree angle so I can rest the tuba on the right front corner of the chair and have the back of the chair under my right elbow so I can rest it as necessary. Never a cramp this way.

geneman06 · Post by **geneman06** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:41 pm

Ive had the same problem with my PT606PS, its got an adjustable thumbring and no matter how many different positions i tried, i still got hand pains. it could just be that my hands are too small for those big valves. The way i solved the problem, i turned the thumbring upside down and turned it into a palm rest and havent had pain since. I know the thumbring on a 1291 isnt that adjustable, but it may be an idea id you decide to have the ring moved.

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Hand/finger pain.

hand/finger pain

Hand/Finger Pain

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