TubeNet

CC for sure. It'll be a more nimble horn for a player used to a tiny horn like euph. Ever see anyone upgrade from CC to BBb, saying, "Yeah, this is better"? Nope. Even better for you would be an Eb or F tuba, as those really soar in chamber music, and feel more like a big euph.

SF

I would say that either CC, or BBb is fine, although, given your choice of instruments, it sounds like the MW would be the better instrument to play. The down side of playing a CC tuba is that they generally cost more $$$. If you are going to eventually buy one, and you are just doubling occassionally, it would probably make more sense to go for a BBb.

I think that chamber music is better served (in general) by playing a physically smaller horn (with great sound & intonation), regardless of it's key. Large & small examples of both CC & BBb tubas are available.

Which do you sound best on?

Exactly. Even though I would lean towards the M-W over the St Pete even if the pitches were reversed, play them both and see.

The bottom line is to pick one and learn it. You can always learn the other's fingerings later. It is good to learn both, as you never know what your situation will be. For example, last month my tuba needed some minor repair that took an extra day to get scheduled, so I had to borrow a tuba for community band rehearsal. I currently play a BBb, but the only thing available was a CC. I took it, refreshed my memory of fingerings for about an hour before rehearsal, and went for it. Was the rehearsal perfect? No. Was it productive with good results for the rehearsal? Definitely yes.

tubaeuph wrote:I'm a euphonium performance major...

Just a bonehead amateur's observation of the real world:

The euphonium world is inextricably tied to the tuba world. You'll benefit as a working pro from being comfortable at the very least with a contrabass and a bass tuba. A Bb tuba would be very familiar to you because it is so similar to the euphonium's fingerings. But if you learned C, and then later learned Eb or F, you'd get three fingering systems for the price of two.

The preponderance of possibility is that the Meinl-Weston Model 32 is a much better instrument than the St. Pete. But that's speculation based on history, not on those particular instruments, or on your own playing. Just don't be too eager to make the decision based on how you sound in the first five minutes. You'll quickly outgrow that perspective. It would be better to get one of the better tuba majors (or your tuba teacher) to play both and make a recommendation.

Anybody seeking a performance degree should demonstrate facility in all four fingering systems, it seems to me. If that's too much of a burden (as it surely would be for me--I have only learned two), then maybe that says something. It would seem to me that this should come pretty easily to someone with serious pro potential.

For chamber music, the Bb would be least appropriate--much of the music is high and Bb tubas are best suited for playing low. C tubas are intended to be a bit easier to blow and if a bass tuba is more responsive than a contrabass, a C tuba should bridge at least part of that gap compared to a Bb. In terms of sound, however, both would be difficult or impossible to differentiate by any audience, all else being equal. Eb might be the best choice, but you don't seem to have that choice. Of the four, F tuba is probably the most difficult to master as an instrument that can do all. But it's the most common solo instrument for tuba players.

More specifically, a Besson Eb would be most familiar in layout to a euphonium player, because of the compensating system. With the C or Bb, you'll have to learn to compensate for valve combination errors with the slides or your embouchure.

Finally, I would suggest learning it as a separate instrument, rather than as a variation on the euphoniu. The C might make that easier to do. Don't try to make a tuba into a large euphonium, or you'll be the inverse of the typical tuba player trying to play euphonium--"He's not bad, for a tuba player."

Rick "whose euph chops last about five minutes" Denney

Here's another opinion from another someone you don't know.

I own a MW 32 CC tuba and love it. I play in community band and brass quintet, and find the horn suitable for both. It's a great compromise-size tuba. Pro: It has a great sound and wonderful fast valve action. The pitch is good. Construction quality is excellent. Con: The low range takes some getting used to (but it's worth the effort).

I have only tried the St. Pete 202 a few times. It's a bigger tuba, and has a sound that would be good in a band. I hated the valves and general construction quality.

If I were looking to get one tuba for playing in both large and small groups, I would get the MW 32.

Regarding BBb versus CC, I can't comment because I don't care. I play with a guy who may bring his CC tuba or his (larger) BBb tuba, depending on the music. Some people can learn new fingerings or a new clef in a few weeks (I can). Other people have considerable difficulty in learning a new system. I suppose it's another one of those individual variations. You will have to figure out which type you are.

Cheers,
Allen

I have read all of the above posts and I have to agree with Bill on this one. It seems to me that you don't really need to learn the CC fingerings unless you just want to do so. Why put so much of your time and effort into learning new fingerings when you could expend all of your energy on learning to play tuba? And, by the way, I regularly play a CC tuba(actually two of them).

as far as learning 4 sets of fingerings, i see no real need to learn Eb in the USA except for the very few that do British Brass Band stuff.Most tubists will eventually need to play the other 3.

Fingering shouldn't be a problem in either case, assuming you read both treble and bass clef, as an upper level euphonium player probably can/should. CC is just a matter of changing from treble to bass clef, BBb means just read it an octave lower. From my experience, the BBb will respond somewhat better below the staff, and the CC will respond dramatically better in the staff and above - assuming 2 horns of relatively equal quality. Qualifier - there are dogs**t MWs and fine St Petes, and vice versa. If you aspire just to have some fun, it doesn't matter but you'll be able to buy your own BBb for a lot less than a CC of corresponding quality. If you aspire to something more serious, it still doesn't matter - learn one and then the other.

The advantage of an Eb is that the postion of the dots on the lines in bass clef is identical to the position of the dots on the lines of a treble clef euph part. So as an experienced eupher who (hopefully) is comfortable with treble clef euph -- consider a big Eb for your personal horn. As mentioned before (and repeated here with a bit of embelishment) the Besson 981 Eb has the same 3+1 layout as a compensating euph and is a well-respected, large Eb. The Willson 3400 Eb is also well respected (I have my opinion on a low-cost provider of this horn, available via PM). I am inclined to think that the low register of the MW2141 Eb might speak a bit more easily than the Willson -- I'll have to check this some day.

I play CC and Eb tubas and have in the past played BBb and F also. For chamber music, I would recommend CC of the two keys you mentioned. For ease of getting started, however, I'd agree with Bloke and others -- BBb tuba has the same fingerings as euph, just an octave shift -- very easy to catch on. For long-term, don't discount a large Eb, however, especially if you're comfy w/ treble clef euph fingerings.

Regards,

Steve Inman wrote:the postion of the dots on the lines in bass clef is identical to the position of the dots on the lines of a treble clef euph part.

True indeed, but the double sharps are treacherous!

I agree with bloke it's rather a Hobson's choice on your tubas.

Hold out for a better tuba. Seriously. Your university music department will have a lot of instruments being checked in and out. Check around with the others who have tubas, and tell them your situation. Someone might (doubtful, but it's a strange world) actually want to check back in the one they're playing for one of those two, or an aspiring tuba major might quit or get a better offer at another university, and check his/her horn back in, etc.

In the final analysis, a combination of the one that sounds best in your context plus your instructor's recommendation will be the one you play, regardless of the number of posts to this thread.

bloke wrote:. . . . If you really decide to buy your OWN tuba, you might consider a Willson 3400 Eb. Some guys on TubeNet can p.m you about the cheapest place to buy one of those.

I agree and like the 3400's I've tested at conferences.

Dean E wrote:I agree and like the 3400's I've tested at conferences.

Closest thing in my experience to a "do everything" tuba.

tubaeuph wrote:The one thing I'm still really curious about though, is the Willson tubas. I would really like to know more about them so if anyone has anymore input that would be awesome.

The big Willson F I played during my undergrad was a fantastic tuba! If I needed a big bass tuba for orchestra, or if I wanted to use an F for quintet, this would be the horn I looked at first. Since you're talking about contrabass tubas, I can tell you that although I didn't spend much time with it the Willson BBb I tooted on at a conference was also a wonderful instrument. It's a tall one though, with a long bell which puts the sound out a little further from your ears. I've grown accustomed to playing shorter fatter horns and like that feedback a little closer to my receptors. As a euph player, you may have a similar experience. If you are able, try to compare your perception of the sound between the MW and the St Pete. (Not "which sounds better" but where the sound is, if that makes sense.) I believe the MW is taller than the St Pete, and this may help you understand what I'm (probably not very effectively) trying to say here.

Anyways, I will echo the sentiment that you play what you've got now at your disposal. As your tuba talent and taste develops you'll have a better idea of what you want and need when you're ready to buy your own.
Enjoy!
MF

Given the horns you have to choose from, i reccomend using the MW. St Pete makes a terrible horn, in fact you could crap a better horn than St Pete could ever build. As for learning new finger, its not as hard as some people make it out to be. And affording a horn, there are plenty of horns out there, you just have to search for the right price. Plus you're in college, you'll never find better loan rates, now would be a great time to take out a loan to get the horn of your dreams.

geneman06 wrote:Given the horns you have to choose from, i reccomend using the MW. St Pete makes a terrible horn, in fact you could crap a better horn than St Pete could ever build.

That is a bit of a harsh statement. while it is true that MANY of the St pete horns on on the side of the fence leaning toward POS, with a large selection and patience, I've seen a few players pick out some darned good ones.

bloke wrote:

KevinMadden wrote:That is a bit of a harsh statement.

and less harsh statements on the same topic have prompted a vendor to threaten lawsuits.

Even worse, if those St. Pete's tubas are made in Russia they'll send the mob after you.

its a harsh statement, but once they changed their name to st pete, they stopped making a good horn, so there for it is somewhat justified (im aware that some people love them). but before they were st pete, they were halfway decent horns, at least better than what they are now. And since im not a vendor, i need not worry about the lawsuit, and since i live in the middle of nowhere, i need not worry about the russian mofia, but in the off chance i need protection, i know the son of the don of the korean mofia

I thought that this forum was for talking about tubas, not the mafia. I apologize for bumping this forum topic up. Anyhow, I think that this question has already been answered. In my opinion he should stick with B flat for ease of fingerings, it's not as if he will play the St. Pete forever. Who knows, maybe it is a good one?