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I have seen a few of these tubas, but don't know much about them. Now, I may soon be the proud(?) owner of one. Other than being a defunct German make, how much can you tell me about these? How handmade were they?

gregsundt wrote:I have seen a few of these tubas, but don't know much about them. Now, I may soon be the proud(?) owner of one. Other than being a defunct German make, how much can you tell me about these? How handmade were they?

I think you'll find that the Zeiss tubas were made in Czechoslovakia... by Cerveny, I think. The ones I've seen are pretty typical of tubas from that part of The World. Handmade?... I suspect that they were all hand-fitted at assembly but don't think they were hand-hammered. Be wary of red rot in the leadpipe and main tuning slide. Also watch for split seams in the tuning slides and associated tubing.

I had one for years. Took me through college and my first year of studying with Mr. Jacobs. The horn played well in tune (mid line D was the only note that needed alternate fingerings, 1-2).

The clock spring valves were sluggish. Tried to have them rewound once but the only way I could get the action I liked was to jury-rig them with rubber bands. With that they were much better.

Its been so long since I've played one, it would be fun to try again, to see if my memory about the horn is true or just nostalgia.

Ken S.

Zeiss was a stencil name used by a U.S. importer. I have seen horns labeled Zeiss that were obviously made by Cerveny and some that were made by B&S. I used to own a "Master Modelle" BBflat that was identical to horns B&S sold in Europe under the Weltklang label. These same horns were stencilled by other importers as Gebhard Schneider and Sonora.

The quality of the Zeiss horns I have actually played (about 6) has been variable. They ranged from very nice to pretty marginal. I hope the one you are looking at is one of the good ones.

Ah, well, if you can't afford a Zeiss, there's always the Zweiss:

Oder das Dreis:

OK, I’ve been resisting the urge to respond to this thread, but I can no longer completely restrain myself. I have a 3500-4000 word article written on my first Karl Ziess, but will not submit it to any music or tuba related journals until my 1970 (my first tuba) ZIess has been completely refurbished. The long and short of it is that the one I had played & sounded great and based on some youthful recordings I have of me and the horn the intonation was terrific and the tone was very even. You’re mileage may vary. Mine was so good that I went through terrible sellers remorse after selling it in 1972 and looked for it for the next 34 years. I suffered many nightmares (Ziessmares) and found it last September; yes it really was the same horn. I had never forgotten the serial #. The article will be entitled “The Red Tubaâ€

Rick Denney wrote:Rick "wondering if Dale still has that photo" Denney

Hey all, I think I'm the one that bought that horn from Dale back in 2003... But wait, just who hasn't bought a horn from Dale??? It was a real nice horn and if I remember right it was built around 1968 +/-. (guess that might be hard to verify?) Very solid and played good too! The only down side was that the linkage needed to be rebuilt and I was also discovering that I didn't like rotary valves. I sold it to a fella in Long Beach, CA after playing it thru one season with our community band... I would buy one again if the right opportunity were in place... See pics below!

The bottom pic was from Dale's house and I tried to get the quilt with the purchase but he wouldn't do it!

Tim

bloke wrote:Around 20 years ago, I did some major restore work on some old nickel-plated Czech (Amati stencil) Zeiss tubas for a very nice band director names Joe Hebert down in New Orleans.

Those tubas are as good as any of the regular 6-series Amati tubas, and considerably thicker brass than the latter-made ones.

bloke "...*getting old"

Joe Hebert (A-bear) is an undiscovered virtuoso on tuba. He played in New York in the 60's and in the American Symphony under Stowkowski but missed New Orleans too much apparently. What a player!

He became the Band/Jazz Band director of Loyola (N.O.) University and, I think, is now the Head of the Music Department. He is now an artist/rep for St. Petersburg tubas (he and Vince Simonetti were roommates in college and still speak to each other!).

If you are looking for a teacher or a player in NO, Joe's your man. A great bass player, too (has to be to make a living on Bourbon St).

His nickle-silver BBb Ziess was a terrific tuba by anyone's standards, as was Richard Murrow's brass Ziess. As someone above posted, every horn is different; play test or have someone play test them for you. I couldn't resist a plug for Joe.

tubop wrote:lol like "Sanders"?

Possibly. I dunno when Custom Music first started using that label as their house brand. I'm thinking "Sander" might have already been out of circulation by so much distance that it wouldn't have had much marketing value by the time Custom started using it, but I don't know.

When I bought my Sanders/Cerveny in 1984, I certainly had never heard of Sander.

Rick "thinking they should have adopted 'Frederick Meinl' as their house brand" Denney

Played three of them in all, converted two of them to spiral springs, re-sprung the other one (a royal PITA). All three had a delightful tone and good intonation… and a pretty gargantuan bore. All were very affordable for the very grateful owners.

J.c.S.

opps... duplication

Richard Murrow wrote:OK, I’ve been resisting the urge to respond to this thread, but I can no longer completely restrain myself. I have a 3500-4000 word article written on my first Karl Ziess, but will not submit it to any music or tuba related journals until my 1970 (my first tuba) ZIess has been completely refurbished. The long and short of it is that the one I had played & sounded great and based on some youthful recordings I have of me and the horn the intonation was terrific and the tone was very even. You’re mileage may vary. Mine was so good that I went through terrible sellers remorse after selling it in 1972 and looked for it for the next 34 years. I suffered many nightmares (Ziessmares) and found it last September; yes it really was the same horn. I had never forgotten the serial #. The article will be entitled “The Red Tubaâ€

Has that article been issued?

Klaus

Rick, Custom Music was using the Sanders label decades before you bought your horn. The late Neil Tidwell (River City Brass and former NO Symphony) bought a wonderful CC 3/4 Sanders with titanium valves in 1964 or 65. I am familiar with two BBb Sanders tubas purchased about the same time, both were larger than a Miraphone 186 and sold nearly the same price as Miraphone.

Alexander tubas were Custom Music lead brand and Walter Kroner was their discount brand. Sanders filled in the middle. The Sanders tubas of that time period were excellent horns, I'd pick one up in a second if I found one. The BBb's has clockspring levers, I seem to remember Neal's horn having open spring levers but it's been a long time since I've seen it.