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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:59 pm
by iiipopes
Now, of course, this next post assumes a respected program with respectful students, regardless of their musical ability, including a good repair budget:

My director dealt with all of the above in this manner: when a student came into band as a Freshman, he/she was assigned an instrument for the duration of their playing in high school band, whether ending in graduation, dropping out, or otherwise. The student was expected to take care of the horn, was given proper instruction on the personal maintenance required, and the procedures for reporting damage or other circumstances needing attention. The student was NOT allowed to "trade up to a better horn" as they gained seniority. Rather, as their abilities improved and seniority achieved, the rewards were advances in section seating, "letter" awards etc. This resulted in the overall care and attention to the condition of the horns being better overall for two reasons: 1) there was no discounting the horn in hopes of a "better" one later, and 2) because the horn was "theirs," there was direct responsibility imposed on the particular student for damage not the result of normal wear and tear or accidents beyond the student's control.

I am a case in point. I happened to get assigned the oldest souzy in service. But by the time I graduated, it was the cleanest, shiniest, best playing one in the inventory, and everything was at least in a passable condition and all the horns lasted many, many years.

By contrast, the one semester I marched in an NCAA I university marching program, they had the "pass the horns down" system a lot of programs had. They had to get new horns every few years because there was no respect by and no accountability to the individual student, and they even had to differentiate between "practice field" horns and "performance" horns, and they were overall in worse shape than the high school horns.

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:14 pm
by iiipopes
tubaman90 wrote:
tubop wrote:
iiipopes wrote:
My director dealt with all of the above in this manner: when a student came into band as a Freshman, he/she was assigned an instrument for the duration of their playing in high school band,

Now THAT is a great idea!
yeah it is, thats what we do, until we get a new horn, then the top guy gets it and his (in our case mine) is passed to the next guy, whos horn simply isnt used anymore cause its a st pete, but it will next year cause 5 tuba playing freshman are coming in.
Yes, but read the caveat in my next sentence. You are already demonstrating the problem with even a one-time hand me down: you are discounting the St. Pete. It will die a premature death that not even it deserves.

If it had been turned around for me with a new souzy purchased by the school as my director had asked for volunteers to play souzy on the field, I would have gotten the new souzy, as the seniors and other upperclassmen had already been assigned their horns.

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:07 am
by Leland
tubop wrote:
iiipopes wrote:
My director dealt with all of the above in this manner: when a student came into band as a Freshman, he/she was assigned an instrument for the duration of their playing in high school band,

Now THAT is a great idea!
Agreed. Was it also made clear how much money repairs would cost?

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:54 am
by iiipopes
tubashaman wrote:Your top band and responsible tubas should have the 186, or the king would be a good choice since it is a full size

A lower band would need yahamas or jupiters

STAY away from st petersburgs, they have the worst intonation, they break easily, and they have a bad tone quality, and really only a 3/4 size.

Im a college tuba major and played on that thing for 1.5 years and got my miraphone 1291 and i can hear such a difference
And your quote assumes the second caveat: lack of responsibility. ALL of the players were assigned the same responsibility for taking care of the instruments. There was NO favortism, and NO singling out or special treatment. We probably had a better team ethic than most professional sports teams, or any other athletic team for that matter. And the school had to build a larger trophy case just for the band trophies as a result.

As I said, the school had a reasonable budget to make sure all instruments were of quality and functioned properly, regardless of age of the horn, or age or ability of the player.

Again, the only stratification of position was as a result of your own limitations, and how you dealt with them, and the only rewards were by and for actual superiority of performance, and then by seating positions and "letter" awards. NOT by horn assignments.

Remember, this thread is about the selection, care, maintenance and longetivity of school-owned tubas, not the rewarding of talented and/or hard working students. This system results in the best overall care, and the longest lives for school owned tubas as opposed to any other system of assigning instruments to students.

Now, here's one more item for the mix: the music store in town, until the owner died, was a stable store with a high reputation region wide, and the owner was a top notch tech himself as well as a player. So he had a good working relationship with the director, and as new instruments were needed, they were purchased of consistent quality for a reasonable, if not the "cheapest" price for instruments that any high school or college music program would feel comfortable having in their inventory, including items such as King tubas, Ludwig top line percussion for both concert and field, Selmer contra clarinets in both Eb & BBb, etc. So as the responsibility for providing good quality instruments consistently was assumed and executed properly by the faculty, staff, and the music store, this also eliminated the "I don't want to play THAT horn" situation.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:15 pm
by iiipopes
tubashaman wrote:I am going to disagree.

Many school districts in Texas, being a superb state for music education, do things this way

The high school has a certain model of tuba they buy, i.e the Miraphone 186, and every few years, they buy newer horns to complement more players.

As with a band with senority, I built my way up from a 1970's BBb 186 to a brand spanking new miraphone 186 my junior year

Also, by the senority and care factor, it causes students to work harder to try to get the nicer equiptment.

A simple explanation to the student about senority solves the whole issue of favirotism, and tell them when they are that age they can have the exact same or newer horn
And again, the horns last only a few years. You point to the fallacy of the system in your own post. Where I come from, the horns last DECADES, not merely years.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:09 am
by sloan
ken k wrote:

People keep saying you gotta try them first, but obviously when purchasing a school horn that usually is not possible.
Then you need a hard and fast return agreement.

Partly based on my recommendation, my local HS purchased a bunch of 2341's. something like 1/2 of them had to be returned. The "keepers" are wonderful.

Someone I play with recently mail-ordered a 2341 and returned it. Last week he tried mine, and was amazed at the difference.

Ken "mine's a keeper" Sloan

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:28 pm
by wphstubaboy
i am a high school student in winter park florida and we have 4 yamaha ybb 321's (1 is about 7 years old, 2 are 3 years old and the last one is brand new). we are a relativley good band program seeing as how we went to midwest this year. i dont like the upright valves that much b/c they are not comfy but the 321's are in tune and really loud when u need them to be (like in mars). i personally take care of the tuba i use which is 3 years old and i keep it in almost perfect condition( has a few dents but they are not from me). i oil the valves once every 2 days with al cas and apply slide grease once every 3 weeks and clean it with alaquer cloth every week or so. most of my section does this as well so the tubas are in great condition (excluding the 7 year old one, which is just FUBAR b/c of previous owners). personally though i wish we had MW's or Miras but beggers cant be choosers. im in the hunt for a pro level tuba for my use at home and in the youth orchestra so pm me if u see anything. oh and our marching band has 2 sets of sousas, 1 line of a mix between fiberglass and rusted metal for practice horns and 1 line of 10 conn 20k's which are preformance horns and have been in WPHS for 9 years and look like new because we TAKE CARE OF OUR HORNS.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:55 pm
by iiipopes
Hey wphstubaboy -- thanks for your post. Glad to hear it. I'm sure you're a credit to your school program. Apply that conscientiousness to everything else in life, and you will go far and high, very far and very high!

Keep up the good work!

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:16 pm
by SplatterTone
Those front piston valve Barringtons seem to meet all the pragmatic requirements listed by Bloke. The customer comments on wwbw website seem to think it is OK for a school horn.

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:16 am
by mTaUrBkA
Bill, I don't know if you are a band director at a school or what, but if you are, be sure to talk to your students...if you haven't already.

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:04 am
by sloan
bloke wrote:look...


bloke "Come-on. This is a no-brainer."
Making it right down bloke's alley.

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:07 am
by iiipopes
sloan wrote:
bloke wrote:look...


bloke "Come-on. This is a no-brainer."
Making it right down bloke's alley.
OK -- we're all going to "assume" you just forgot to put the "Razz" emoticon at the end of this post.


Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:03 am
by BrassedOn
Jason Arnold wrote:The only down side to a 2341 is that really annoying bend going into the third valve that makes it nearly impossible to drain. I have finally gotten to the point with my students where I make them take out their 3rd valve and pour it out from the front (before the lesson starts). And the only other con is the removable leadpipe assembly always seems to come loose. Happy Hunting.
I play the 2341 and here is exactly what I do. It is the honor bestowed on 2341 players (and 1240s) going back decades. Of course, rotary players with the "condensation" flowing neatly to a single evacuation key may think it a dishonor and unseemly. But if it's "spit" in a King, everyone will know you draw your tuba as a knight wields a broadsword.

After draining slides from the bottom, pull the top 3rd valve slide and tip 100 degrees to the left. For the second and first slide, tip right 30 degrees, depress the valves one at a time, and blow to get water out of that first knuckle on the back. Or, like the 3rd, I will sometimes pull the top 1st slide and tip left. For the 4th valve, there is the bottom spit key, but there is a whole 'nother loop in that circuit. This requires the classic "King Twist": Raise the horn, tip to the left 100 degrees, then tip on the other axis the valve button side up toward the sky, and then toward the player to move the water around that branch, tip right and reorient to home position, evacuate again from the bottom spit key. As an added benefit, this works your deltoids and puts fear into the woodwind players and hornists nearby; they think I'm going to toss the horn across the band. Then, as a final show of strength, I sometimes have to do a French horn spin, to spin the horn counter clockwise 360 a few turns to move some water around the bows towards the bell. For the King lover, typically, this is no burden.