TubeNet

A long time ago, in the old tubenet, I said that I would post pictures from my recent trip (April, 2001) to the Musical Instrument museum in Brussels. Well, I didn't figure out how to post pictures back then, so I'm trying again, you may still find the pictures amusing. Here goes:

A display case with some OLD, but very cool horns:


Here are a couple of pictures of what I think may have been made by Moritz shortly after the very first tuba(~1835):



Here are a couple of odd old horns that look surprising like some of the offerings today, perhaps from Sax:




Finally, for all you brass band enthusiasts, I thought of you when I saw this:




Thanks to all you old tubenetters for your 6 years of patience while I figured out how posting pictures works.

Rex

That looks identical to the original Moritz tuba in the Wieprecht patent. I would really like to know if the mouthpiece is original and if so what are its dimensions, because it looks rather euphonium-sized to me.

I've long thought the original Moritz and Wieprecht Basstuba was really more like a modern, large euphonium than a modern tuba. A reasonable approximation of sound might be playing a modern compensating euphonium as a 3-valve F with the fourth locked down.

Rick "appreciating the OLD pictures of OLD tubas" Denney

Thanks! I'm glad you waited, because I wasn't on here in 2001!

Rick Denney wrote:That looks identical to the original Moritz tuba in the Wieprecht patent. I would really like to know if the mouthpiece is original and if so what are its dimensions, because it looks rather euphonium-sized to me

If the Wieprecht-looking tuba was wrapped the same way as the valved ophicleides, it would be at least twice it's length!

Very cool horns!!! Sure wonder how they would have sounded but also have to assume that maybe there is a reason why they are museum pieces and not seen in todays bands...

Sorry you had to wait so long to post your pics although better late than never! It has been said before, that several of us TubeNetter's would be more than happy to help anyone when it comes to posting pictures. Just let us know...

Thanks for sharing, Tim

I noticed on their website: http://www.mim.fgov.be/home_uk.htm
that they have a shop which sells CD's. Are there any that feature these instruments? (And is that mechanical hurdy-gurdy by Aeolian?)

If only that wind and play music box could play the Budweiser theme song...

Rick wrote:

I've long thought the original Moritz and Wieprecht Basstuba was really more like a modern, large euphonium than a modern tuba.

When I saw this beautiful instrument, my impression was that it was about the same size as my daughter's Yamaha YBB 103. So, maybe a little bigger than a modern euphonium, but I don't have any actual dimensions.

Rick wrote:

I would really like to know if the mouthpiece is original and if so what are its dimensions, because it looks rather euphonium-sized to me.

Same here. Again, I don't know for sure about the mouthpiece. What I do know is that all over the museum I was struck by how modern looking all the mouthpieces appeared, and they all looked in great shape. But then, all the instruments looked pretty good too. I don't know if modern mouthpieces were put on period instruments or if the mouthpiece external shape just hasn't changed much in 170 yrs.

It would have been really cool to be able to toot on a few of those old horns, but the Museum is, very correctly, protective of their treasures. By the way, if you find yourself in Brussels, it is well worth the trip to this museum. The vast array of instruments is amazing and it takes a whole day in the building to do it justice. I especially liked the collection of keyboard instruments: bellows driven, multi-keyboards and uprights that fire the imagination.

I have some other pics from that trip that tubenetters may find amusing. I'll try to post some more in the next few weeks.

What is surprising about the Wieprecht/Moritz and modern F tubas is not how they have changed, but how similar they still are after over 170 years!

I enjoyed looking at the instruments i n the first photo--the construction is just so--artful.

Rick Denney wrote:That looks identical to the original Moritz tuba in the Wieprecht patent. I would really like to know if the mouthpiece is original and if so what are its dimensions, because it looks rather euphonium-sized to me.

I've long thought the original Moritz and Wieprecht Basstuba was really more like a modern, large euphonium than a modern tuba. A reasonable approximation of sound might be playing a modern compensating euphonium as a 3-valve F with the fourth locked down.

I've seen a couple of these before, and they are generally taller than I expected them to be. The bell is very small by today's standards.

I have an F tuba by Wilhelm Finke which probably dates from around 1880. Although my instrument has almost no bell flare, it still has more flare than the Moritz-styled instrument (Finke = 10" bell, 0.707 bore). The resulting sound of my instrument is very powerful and compact. It's quite a dark sound, but carries very well. In many ways it's more like a bass sax than a euphonium.

Next month I'll be touring Brahms 2 and the Tragic Overture with the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique. The trombonists are using German instruments, and I'll be trying out a few things in the rehearsals before we settle on an instrument choice. I would really love to use the Finke, but worry that the pitch discrepancy (Finke is in high pitch) will be insurmountable.

I would really love to hear the sound of 3 old German trombones (small bore, big bells) combined with a very concentrated tuba sound.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention:

The curvy Dr Seuss looking things with the 6 valves were designed so that each valve equates to a trombone slide position (open + 6 valves = 7 positions). You'll notice that the valve tubing lengths are progressively longer with each valve.

I've seen several similar instruments before, all (I believe) by Sax, including one in London's Horniman Museum, just down the road from my house.

Incidentally, if any of you brassheads are ever in London, I recommend a visit to the Horniman - they have probably the most extensive collection of instruments in London (thus probably England), including a large number purchased from the now closed Boosey & Hawkes collection.

Highlights are a 6 foot+ BBBb tuba, and 5/4 Besson CC displayed as all of its unassembled constituent parts.

Definitely worth a visit. There's also a great instrument museum in Edinburgh.

Jeff Miller wrote:The curvy Dr Seuss looking things with the 6 valves were designed so that each valve equates to a trombone slide position (open + 6 valves = 7 positions). You'll notice that the valve tubing lengths are progressively longer with each valve.

I've seen several similar instruments before, all (I believe) by Sax, including one in London's Horniman Museum, just down the road from my house.

I think that the bimbonifono (bimboniphone) is another such:



The Horniman claims to have one, but there's no photo on their website.

Chuck(G) wrote: I think that the bimbonifono (bimboniphone) is another such:

Correct me if I'm wrong. Was that instrument specifically designed for Paris Hilton?

Jeff Miller wrote:There's also a great instrument museum in Edinburgh.

Where is that one Jeff? I am going to Edinburgh during the summer and would like to visit.

Another place in the UK good to see a collection of historical instruments is Cyfarthfa Castle at Merthya Tidfil in Wales. These are from the famous Cyfarthfa Band and date from c1860's. Admission is even free! Here are some pictures I took during my visit a couple years ago.

BBb on the left with Eb tuba, then I believe two euphoniums/baritones. All rotary valved and if I remember correct manufactured in Austria. These instruments had some of their valve linkages missing


A second Eb tuba in what appeared playing condition (I would love to have tried it!)


An Ophicliede with some keyed bugles (?)