TubeNet

I second the idea of using a Schilke 59. It's not big enough to let you play it like a tuba, but it's not too small for tuba chops. That's what I've used for close to three years now, with reasonable success.

Awesome! Now you do have your work cut out for you, but it'll be worth it. The slide ain't gonna be easy. All stereotypes aside, the bass trombonist, is almost without fail, the best player in the section. Be prepared to move some air. Because its going to feel like you're playing an industrial Shop-Vac until you get used to it, and even some after that.

As far as it hurting your chops, that is complete garbage. Its going to make you a BETTER tuba player. Mouthpiece wise, maybe try something with a nice rounded rim. Something like a Bach 2G. Its "small" by todays standards, but if you haven't played bass before you may have trouble playing in the upper register on a big piece like a SChilke 60. Also the rim on a 60 is ultra thin, and will feel like playing on a razor blade if you press too hard.

Best of luck to you!

I agree with Bloke; it is a difficult and very physical instrument to play. A phrase that you can play easily in one breath on a tuba will take two or three on a bass bone, especially if is ti below the staff. The air just gets sucked right our of you. Also it can be awkward to hold.

You must treat it as a separate instrument and practice it diligently. Good slide technique and smooth legato playing are the two hardest things on a trombone and are the techniques that most doublers lack. Trombonists spend hours learning to play legato. I started out as a trombone player so I developed that first. But I often notice that most tuba players and Euph players who play trombone as their second intrument just never quite get it right. Slide technique and good pitch are key, since the slide can stop anywhere. So you can play perfectly in tune on every note.... or not....

I too use a 59 schilke. It is large enough to get a nice big sound but will still sound like a trombone and not a slide tuba.

ken k

ken k wrote:Also it can be awkward to hold.

I agree. There are very few things that can make your hand and wrist hurt that bad for two days after only an hour of playing.

As to the mouthpiece, when I played bass trombone in my school's symphonic band all I was able to borrow was a Wick 1-1/2AL but it worked pretty well for my purposes.

Good luck
Sou

As a 50 yr bass trombonist learning to double on tuba I have maybe a different perspective to offer. I use a Shilke 60 for legit stuff, but a shallower cup willl get you the pop you want in jazz band. Don't worry about rim size just keep the cup shallow. I prefer a Marcinkiewicz 106, J. Martin signature for jazz band, 30mm rim but shallower than the 60. I use a Bach 30E tuba mouthpiece with a cut down shank when I have to play in the pedal register continually, like the 8th part in trombone choir. Long story short, none of this changing around seems to hurt my other playing. 'Course it is easier to say that when you don't play all that well to start with.

The comment about keeping the mouthpiece shallow is worth some extended discussion. That is a revelation to me, though in retrospect it must rate a huge "duh" from some of you guys. In personal experience, three serious challenges are raised by the bass bone double. IMO, they are: 1) acquiring good slide technique especially in low register, 2) developing facility on the double trigger, and 3) dealing with the different airflow logistics. None is overcome without a lot of work, but as I look back, I've been handicapping myself as most of my bass bone mouthpieces have been comparatively deep - and the one I have used most has been an Eb tuba mouthpiece with a very wide throat.

What are some shallower bass bone mouthpiece models out there? Any recommendations?

tbn.al wrote:...but a shallower cup willl get you the pop you want in jazz band...

I've not heard that before, but it is worth looking into.

I too am a bass bone player the doubles on tuba, I play both in the jazz band, sometimes switching in the middle of a chart. I have found that the easiest transition is with a Bach 24W on my Mirafone 184 and a Bach 1G on my Besson bass bone (seems we have some horns in common, although I'm a bit older at 51). I would like to get a little more pop out of the bone, I think I might try and find a MP that has a similar rim to the 1G but a shallower cup. Any suggestions!

JohnMCooper wrote:[similar rim to the 1G but a shallower cup. Any suggestions!

John, I 've got 10 years on you, approaching 61. I don't have one in the drawer right now but I seem to remember that the Wicks are pretty shallow and "hot". The 1AL is about the same size as a 1G. I sold mine with a horn. That thing would really peel paint, but Dennis doesn't list cup depth on his site. The Marcinkiewicz 106 has a lot of pop and I use that the few times I play in a jazz band, but it has a huge rim.

tubashaman wrote:I used my tuba mouthpiece, and tuned the slide positions

So many tuba players try to go this route (myself included), but it just doesn't give the characteristic trombone sound, the partials don't line up, and the high range (aka middle range for a tenor trombonist) is fuzzy. I agree with the Schilke 59 being a good choice, it is noticeably bigger than the Bach 1 1/2G but much more manageable than the king kong sized Shilke 60. My personal preference for the last few years has been the Griego .75 which seems to have all the clarity and high range of the 59 while being a little bigger in diameter. The slightly larger Griego .5 seemed to have a more diffuse sound.

I agree with what Bloke said about the bass bone being a difficult and totally different instrument to play. It is NOT a tuba with a slide. I finally came into my own as a player, after messing around for a decade, when I took regular lessons from the local symphony principal. Now, I just don't have the opportunity to practice it regularly; it does require a lot of maintenance.

ZNC Dandy wrote:the bass trombonist, is almost without fail, the best player in the section.

I'm still cleaning diet coke off the screen.


I gotta move to where you are at!

djwesp wrote:

ZNC Dandy wrote:the bass trombonist, is almost without fail, the best player in the section.

I'm still cleaning diet coke off the screen.


I gotta move to where you are at!

The best trombonist I know, or have ever heard recordings, l;ive or anywhere is a bass trombonist. He is also the best tenor trombonist i've ever heard. He's an absolute freak. He may be the best brass player i've ever heard period.

ZNC Dandy wrote:

djwesp wrote:

ZNC Dandy wrote:the bass trombonist, is almost without fail, the best player in the section.

I'm still cleaning diet coke off the screen.


I gotta move to where you are at!

The best trombonist I know, or have ever heard recordings, l;ive or anywhere is a bass trombonist. He is also the best tenor trombonist i've ever heard. He's an absolute freak. He may be the best brass player i've ever heard period.

No,you said "almost without fail, the best player in the section". I've heard good bass trombone players as well, but in a lot of experiences I've been around wretched ones. And by wretched, I mean worse than myself----- I'm absolutely horrible on bass trombone. Disgusting. Pathetic. Terrible. I'm just weary of throwing out always, never, and almost always and almost never... those words get me in a lot of trouble in this world.

Wes "who encounters a lot of bass tromobonists who are there because they couldn't cut it on tenor" pendergrass

p.s.- i'm treading on thin ice, I can feel it. This has nothing to do with instrumental superiority, just limited personal experience. Just like with ALL the other instruments, some people care what comes out of the end of their bells and some people don't.

I play next to a very fine bass trombonist in the S.A. Wind Symphony. Otherwise, some are good and some aren't. When I get to sub with the S.A. Symphony, I sit next to Larry Bird(that's his real name), who is a terrific player. He makes me work very hard to make the sound necessary to balance and blend with his.

tbn.al wrote:...John, I 've got 10 years on you, approaching 61....

Sorry about making you seem so young! Now that I have gone back and re-read your post, I realize I'm just a punk kid!

I have also played with the spectrum, from the low brass professor at a regional university that is retired Navy and could play his Greenhoe anywhere he wanted to, but chose to teach instead to the infinite benefit to thousands of low brass students, to well-meaning hobbyists who sounded like the jake brake on a truck. I really appreciate a good bass bone player, especially since as tubists we usually sit in close proximity to them.

The worst advice I was given when trying to double was to get the biggest damn bass bone mpc I could find. At the time, the biggest was a Bach 1 1/4 GM--extra wide backbore.

The problem, obviously, was airflow. What that big ahole (take it to mean the person giving the advice and an analogy for the backbore) did is give me no chance to get a good bass trombone sound, much less endurance. I eventually went to a 1G, which was a little more difficult to play but gave me a better sound.

The last gig I played on bass bone, and almost the last time I played it at all, was Barnum and Bailey's some 18 years ago. 9 shows over 5 days. By the time Sunday came around, the last 2 shows, I was playing with my left elbow on my left thigh, holding the horn with my palm up so I was working the F trigger with my index finger, 2nd trigger with the thumb. Total, absolute, devestating pain. Fortunately, there was a hot tub at home at the time, and I was soaking just the arm in that every night, or it would have been a lot worse.

Looking back, I had no business playing that gig, but it was an experience I'll never forget nor personally regret; but, it wasn't the best played bass trombone in B&B history, to say the least.

I can still play bone, do so very rarely but on a tenor my sound is decent and slide technique is absolutely no problem.

JohnMCooper wrote: Sorry about making you seem so young! Now that I have gone back and re-read your post, I realize I'm just a punk kid!

Now you know why I don't put up a picture. The old bald head doesn't fit with the immature posts. I have only been playing tuba 5 years, so I'm really a youngster.

I went back and checked the cup depth on all those mp's and was really surprised at the results. The cups on all 3 are the same depth and the rims are all between 29 and 30mm. They don't play the same at all. Don't know what to make of it. The Bach 30E appears to be more bowl shaped and the Schilke 60 the most conical. The Marcinkiewicz has has the same throat but the Schilke the larger backbore. The Bach is by far the heaviest and the largest throat. Go figure. I like the Bach for cellar work, the Schilke for orchestra and the Marcinkiewicz for jazz.

I am a tuba player who decided he wanted to learn the bass trombone. I believe it's a great doubling instrument and will help in the long run with teaching opportunities and/or gigs. I use a Griego .25 and that's as close to a tuba mpc. you're going to get! I have found that it does not mess up my chops, but it does take time to adjust from one to the other. And it should, considering that they ARE two entirely different beasts. I personally say go for it! Good luck and have fun!

Ralph