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One of the community bands I play in had the Annual General meeting last night and an interesting debate arose regarding fees and fund raising.

One band member suggested that the band was gouging members by asking for $60 annual membership fee even though the band has significant funds in the bank. He also suggested that the band revert to a rehearsal band to avoid the cost of the putting on concerts. And, he went on to say, that we should do fund raising to avoid the annual membership fees.

Just to clarify the situation, there are about 65 members in the band which has won two performance awards this year. The band is designated as a registered charity and we all get a tax receipt for our fees, which are considered a donation to the band. To play a concert and get your name in the program, you need to be a member in good standing which means that the membership fees are paid and you have attended a minimum number of rehearsals prior to each concert ( I thinks it’s 4).

Now, the general consensus was that the $60 a year was a good deal as it worked out to about $1.50 per rehearsal, which covers the cost of our rehearsal hall, the MD, music purchases, programs and insurance. (If you’re doing the math, we also get other sponsorship support to cover other expenses). The band plays in a very nice theater 4 times a year and we generally break even on tickets sales. I’ve played with other community bands where the concert location was often the converted dinning room of a seniors residence (very interesting smells) so a proper theater is a great venue to play in.

The last community orchestra I played in charged the members $150 a year. Not the best deal for the tuba player, on a cost per note basis.

Last night’s mini-debate lead me to wonder how other community bands handle membership requirements, member fee and fundraising. So, how does your band handle these issues?

I am lucky that the community band I play with is sponsored by the local state university, with the usual combination of funding from the state, tuition, and benefactors, so there are no personal fees unless you want to take the course for an hour of fine arts credit, then the usual tuition fees apply.

I can understand that with a civic or other based band that subscriptions and concert admission may not raise enough cash. But it is difficult to envision pay to play.

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The community band I play in is sponsored by the local park district. As such we have to pay a $20 annual fee for individual or $35 for a family (2 or more). We have a winter concert and a spring concert that we charge admission for and sell refreshments at, these usually bring in a tidy profit. During the summer we play between 8 - 10 concert in the park type gigs. All of these are for a fee that goes to the band fund.

I'm aware of various ways local community bands are funded:
1) the local "Horizons" band plays in a beautiful venue, and I think their participation fee is approximately $250 annually per member;
2) a band I am a former board member of instituted a participation fee of $50 annually per member two years ago, which can be paid by fundraising. Prior to the fee, a core group within the band did much of the fundraising....and I think came to resent the fact they were raising money for the group when others weren't. I suspect many of the members who have little time or inclination for fundraising were relieved to have an amount set for contribution. The band is also building an endowment fund through the local community foundation, with the hope that one day most of the necessary funding will come from the endowment;
3) a third band's leader was a popular figure in the community and years ago helped pass a millage to support the band, which continues past his retirement;
4) a fourth community band is extremely popular regionally for it's parade ("marching") appearances and "sit down" shows which draw large crowds. That band charges appearance fees which cover the group's expenses and funds beyond that are given to area students as band camp scholarships;
5) a fifth band has very little "overhead" and "passes the hat" a couple times per season at it's popular appearances.

For the last couple of years, the Loudoun Community Band, Inc., has been forced to pass the hat. We ask for $50 from members who don't support us financially in other ways (and some do so very generously).

Even so, the dues are only about 20% of our budget, and that's if everyone pays.

We get the rest from corporate donations, gifts from those for whom we perform, donations at the door, and grants. We were about even last year, but we are trying to build our resources to provide a year's budget in cash reserves.

I find that those who most often demand that we solicit corporate donations and grants aren't willing or able to do it themselves. Everyone has a good idea, but for me, a good idea has no value unless implemented, and when the presentation of that idea starts with "someone should...", I stop listening.

But an organization that does not perform provides no service to the community, except for limited service to the small community of participants. The participants should indeed get the primary consideration for having their needs met, but if you are unwilling to provide more general service, then forget about being a tax-exempt charity. Even so, most participants want to perform in public, because...

Rehearsing without performing is like masturbation. It only has real value to those who don't get the real thing.

By the way, our gate donations (we ask for $5 a head) usually cover the direct costs of the performance. It doesn't cover the overhead, but we'd have that even if we never performed. What we would not have is the ability to attract highly qualified conductors and guest musicians (even though we provide nominal compensation), which is an important part of the musical satisfaction we enjoy.

Every group has to identify what it wants to be as a group. There will always be dissent in that determination, and some may even leave the group. Fine. Those who are left will be committed to a common purpose, and that's better for the group. Our band is smaller than it once was, but it is more committed.

Some professionals and former professionals are insulted by the idea of paying dues. Most of them, however, have been willing to pass the hat to form or enhance professional groups in which they have been involved. They do that as an investment. So do amateurs in community bands when they pay dues. With pros, the return on the investment is expected to be financial. With amateurs, the return is to enjoy musically satisfying experiences. So, that became the mission of our band: To provide its members and audiences with musically satisfying experiences. Actually, that turns out to be an easy sell compared to the usual gobbledygook about enhancing the cultural depth of the community, blah, blah, blah.

Rick "who spends as much time dealing with band finances as practicing the tuba, unfortunately" Denney

Rick, thanks for the thoughtful response, as always.

Just curious...does your band compensate the Music Director/Conductor for his/her time (don't need the real number)? Also, do you invest in your music library (as we have) or do you rent/borrow/beg music for the band?

Our MD/Conductor receives an annual "salary" and it is worth every penny. We get excellent value for the dollars invested in the position and he is very committed to the band. We even gave him a raise last year.

Tortuba wrote:Rick, thanks for the thoughtful response, as always.

Just curious...does your band compensate the Music Director/Conductor for his/her time (don't need the real number)? Also, do you invest in your music library (as we have) or do you rent/borrow/beg music for the band?

Our MD/Conductor receives an annual "salary" and it is worth every penny. We get excellent value for the dollars invested in the position and he is very committed to the band. We even gave him a raise last year.

If you'll follow the link in my message, and look at Corporate Info, you'll find our annual report and financial report for the last couple of years. I think those will answer all your questions and then some.

The compensation we provide to our conductors and guest musicians comprises a large share of our annual budget. And we wouldn't have it any other way. Being competently conducted and filling empty seats with real pros is key to our musical satisfaction. Not all groups are as committed to that level of challenge.

Rick "who believes charities have an obligation to be openly accountable" Denney

I have never paid to play and it seems to be somewhat of an insult considering we are sharing our talents to entertain someone else...

I played for a number of years with The Ontario/Chaffey Community Show Band and they've never asked for a penny. The director has been a community icon for about 40+ years and I think the city would do almost anything for him! CLICK HERE to read the history of the band and its beginnings...

Goodluck with your band...

Tim

Everything about the community band I founded in 2000 can be found here:

http://www.olddamband.com

Basically, it's a true community group that accepts any and all folks who want to play a musical instrument... without much regard to capabilities. We've even had folks come who simply want to learn how to play or want to double on a different instrument. No one gets paid... not even the conductor or director of music. All of our support somes from private donations and small corportate and foundation grants. There are no dues requirements. We have a small Dixieland ensemble that generates about 75% of our operating capital.

There is also a lot of information about this topic here:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/c-m/

I asked the director of the band mentioned above how to have a successful community band and here's the email that he sent... I only asked for 10 steps and this is what I got!!! This list proves that as an organization there is a lot more to it than just showing up to play music...

MULTIPLY STEPS TO A SUCCESSFUL BAND:
1. It must be a recreational organization, people come and go as they need
2. My three organizational structure
a. Hear no mistakes
b. Minimum rehearsal time on each number
c. I am the only one in the band that makes mistakes
3. Not a community band...It is a SHOW BAND
4. All shows built around a theme and the music fits that theme
5. Use a Narrator to tell the story as the theme develops
6. Use slides to enhance the story
7. Use a registration book for new members to sign to build a mailing list
8. Send out monthly Newsletters to those on mailing list
9. Make personal contact each rehearsal with all members of the band
10.Make contact with local newspaper reporters. Tip them off to a news story
not related to the band. This way you open a dialogue
11. When a major program is designed and need extra publicity, take the reporter out for a cup of coffee or a lunch. Then ask his/her help
12. Cultivate strong personalities in the community i.e City Councilmen, successful business men, schools, clubs - Kiwanis, Rotary, etc.
13. Write letter to the editor thanking them for their recent support of your program
14. Talk to the Adult School Administration and see if band can be part of their program.
15. Talk to the Community Recreational Dept. and see if the band can help their program
16. Surround yourself with competent people that expand your professionalism
17. Organize a Support group of (wife's of band members etc.)
18. Invite the public to attend a rehearsal
19. Develop a Web Site (see ours) WWW.showband.net
20. Hold Staff meeting a day or two before the show to iron out the bugs
a. Stage Manager
b. Sound Engineer
c. Associate Conductor
d. Program Coordinator
e. Web and slide master
f. Television staff
g. As needed
21. Join a Service Club
22. ??????more to come as I think


Pray a lot

trseaman wrote:I have never paid to play and it seems to be somewhat of an insult considering we are sharing our talents to entertain someone else...

Tim

I don't feel insulted at all in paying dues ($20/yr) to my community band. It does a couple of things:

It invests a small, manageable personal stake in the organization. I paid my 20 chips, I might as well go to rehearsal.

It does help the organization financially, even in a small way. Our organization does not receive municipal support per se, only a small grant from the local arts council. There is another local municipal band that receives a substantial chuk of money from the city for music purchases. Not so our organization. All of our funds come from sponsors, member dues, the occasional paid concert, and passing the hat at performances.

We don't do fund raisers for a very pragmatic reason: few of us have the time to devote to such things after we work, take care of our families, and do the other things we do. The band is an outlet, not a vocation. With fund raisers, you also run into issues of the 10% rule: 10% of the people do 100% of the work. Such situations cause unpleasant feelings on the part of the 10% toward those in the other 90%. Better to exhaust all other revenue sources before you resort to fund raising activities in a community recreational band. I think you'll find it leads to a few heartaches and many headaches.

All of our concert venues are rent-free. If it isn't we don't play there. Often it is a church that desires a portion of the program also feature members of their choir, and often they will offer an honorarium for the performance.

AFA membership requirements, there are some, but we're also not real anal about them. If you can play your horn, come play your horn. Our music is tough enough that the ones that can't cut it either get better or don't last long. We try to ask that people attend the majority of rehearsals if they are playing a particular concert, sometimes that isn't always possible for the individual player or desirable for the ensemble.

Basically, this is a fun endeavor. When it ceases to be fun, it's time to move on. Our group plays very challenging rep, and is serious about playing good music as well as we can play it. But in the final analysis, we're all there because it's still fun to play after all these years.

I also agree with Rick about the rehearsal band. If a tree falls in the woods and there's nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound? Who cares? There's nobody around. Same with a rehearsal band. If you never perform, who cares? IMO, it would be the death-knell for your band.

I don't pay a fee to play in the Southlake Community Band. The conductor is paid about $600-$700 per month. He is director of the middle school band where we rehearse. We're fortunate that the school district allows us to use the band hall at no charge. The city of Southlake provides some funding and the fees from the Southlake Swing Band go to the band fund. Band members and other give tax deductible donations as well. It's a pretty darn good situation for us.

www.southlakeband.com

I also agree with Rick about the rehearsal band. If a tree falls in the woods and there's nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound? Who cares?

Most of the most fun and rewarding musical experiences I've ever had have involved groups sitting on the front porch or in someone's living room making music for the pure pleasure of it. Who cares if there's an audience out there? You're either making good music or you're not, some bodies out in the seats in the dark beyond you are pretty irrelevant, except when you have to put on a suit and )%(&* necktie to satisfy someone's vision of what a musician on stage is supposed to look like. I don't play for money, nor for ego, so I could give a hoot if anyone besides me and my fellow players can hear what's being played. I don't find that an audience adds anything positive to the experience.

That said, I don't think a rehearsal-only community band is likely to be viable.

I've just taken on the job of fundraising person for our community band, so this is a very interesting topic. We don't have dues, but do have a drum in the back of the room for contributions, the town contributes a rehearsal and storage space, but no funds. We play a couple of paid gigs a year (for peanuts compared to what a disc jockey at a Bar Mitzvah makes), sell tickets for a nominal fee to our serious concerts, and pass the drum during our summer concert series. We also sell advertising in the program and try to solicit a "sponsor" for each concert. With all this we cover a minimal budget with little left over, and I at least, am somewhat ashamed at what we pay our conductor.

I have an issue (which in my new job I keep under tight control) with asking for outsiders to pay for our hobby (this is a community band!) when much of the band has done little or nothing to cover the operational costs. I think some very nominal contribution (say $1/week) is absolutely reasonable to ask from the membership, and would cover many of the basic essentials taken together wiht ticket sales and such. I'd rather go to the community or to granting organizations to help cover much-needed capital improvements or costs of commissioning new music than day-to-day operations. I don't expect to win this argument, lots of people think of showing up and playing as their "contribution", as if the band really exists for any reason other than providing a venue for the memebers to play together.

Michiana Concert Band: no dues- no paid positions (as far as I know- I'm just assuming, having never thought to ask)

We have an open instrument case for donations at each concert.

Last year a small group manned a souvenir booth (run by the college bookstore) outside the main gate of the Notre Dame stadium for all of the home football games. We got a share of the gross sales. Lots of work for a small group of volunteers, but a decent amount of money.

trseaman wrote:I have never paid to play and it seems to be somewhat of an insult considering we are sharing our talents to entertain someone else.

If costs must be incurred to keep a band viable as an organization, I think it reasonable to expect the members to chip in. All the better if an amount is set so the members contribute (at least) equally. The more costs can be covered by "gate receipts", an endowment, or grants the better....but music, venue rental, etc., may exceed those proceeds.

It's not a matter of an individual's musicianship, or how impressive a musical resume a person has. The group is either financially viable, or it isn't.

If an individual is unwilling to pay the same amount as the rest of the membership to _preserve the organization_, wouldn't the paying members have every right to feel insulted that that individual placed him or herself above them?

Since I retired from the Army some 12 years ago, as a euphoniumist/trombonist I found I couldn't put the horns down.

The logical thing to do was to explore community bands/orchestras, since I damn sure wasn't going to make a living playing the euph or trombone.

I found several types of ensembles, most of which, well, weren't quite what I was looking for. 'Nuff said. As a result, I play exclusively in British-style brass bands now. The music is generally tougher and I enjoy the process of practicing to meet the demands of that music.

I have no problem paying a bit of money for "dues" in an organization. I pay the VFW to belong, why not a community band? Both outfits serve a purpose for the community and as somebody has already pointed out, if I'm paying a bit of money, I own a little bit of the group. Paying $150 is unreasonable, but $50 is doable.

Rick Denney:

I find that those who most often demand that we solicit corporate donations and grants aren't willing or able to do it themselves. Everyone has a good idea, but for me, a good idea has no value unless implemented, and when the presentation of that idea starts with "someone should...", I stop listening.

Truer words have never been spoken. When it's time for non-musical stuff to get done, I find it irritating as hell for some "members" to yap about what they think, but when it comes time for things to get done, they don't have time.

Speaking as an amateur, most of us have a full-time job apart from music that pays the rent, utilities, food, and clothes. I have to invest a significant part of my life in that activity. But when I make a decided effort to become part of an organization, that's what I do. Playing the horn isn't enough - it takes other stuff to make an ensemble work.

Too many "musicians" forget that.

bloke wrote:Approximately twenty $100 sold ads to be printed in each program should do it...??

If the "woodwinds" and "brass/percussion" are designated as two committees each with their own chairman, each of the two committees would be expected to, collectively, sell ten ads for each concert. Additionally sold ads would add to the band's treasury.

Several points, which you already know, but I'll say it for others to ponder:

1. One out of every ten people pretends to have what it takes to solicit anything from anybody. And of those, 20% get 80% of the results. People who are good at sales are rare, rare, rare. And it's no laziness, believe me. Anybody can sell a product everyone wants. But what do most local bands offer the business owner? You end up hitting business owners who are in the band, and business owners who are your personal friends, and both get old after a while.

2. Every girl scout troop in a 100-mile radius is hitting up the local business for one of those ads. Are a bunch of fat, bearded band geeks going to override cute 12-year-old girls? I don't think so.

3. There are two things requires to sell. Item 1 above was the first one. The other, which is just as important, is the prospect list. I'll bet you that very few bands have 20 people in them who know a likely prospect that they could approach.

I've done programs with ads in them, and I have edited a large-circulation newsletter for my professional society. Everyone (who doesn't do it) think's it's no big deal to Scotch-tape a business card on a piece of paper. But it's never quite that easy. I spent more time doing the business-card ads than I did editing the document, which usually included writing two or three articles.

When someone in the band walks in with $100 and a business card, committing to finding more, then I'll find someone to deal with the cards. But again, it's one of those good ideas that starts with "someone should...".

Rick "who'd rather get the money without begging" Denney

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