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GeneralTuba wrote:I've been looking at the VMI Neptune rotary, but my instructor thought I should look elsewhere (he has had quality issues with VMI CCs). What are your thoughts? Which other good quality, big horns are out there in my price range? Any advice would be great. Thanks!

The rotary Neptunes have a good reputation. The piston Neptunes are probably what generated your instructor's fears. In your price range, you don't get to pick instruments that DON'T have issues, even assuming that much more expensive tubas come free of issues, which they don't.

But I agree with Scoob. 6/4 seems too big for a first CC for a performance major. BAT's have limited uses in large ensembles, and then only for a certain kind of sound. They are too hard to manage, and have too broad a presence, with chamber groups and for solo work. Your first C should do everything reasonably well. Save the specialty instruments for later.

Think 4/4 or at most 5/4. A Miraphone 186 CC will fit in your budget, for example. There are others, too.

Rick "who's rather have an excellent 4/4 than a dodgy 6/4 for any amount of money" Denney

As an owner of a Neptune, I can say I have never had any problem with its quality and find it a great tuba. Like all models, there are good and bad examples, so you must try before you purchase.

However, I would agree that it is really too big for a first CC. It can make a really massive sound and too easily overpower all but the largest of ensembles. I tend to find my 4/4 PT-20 more frequently used, although I will take my Neptune whenever I can, as I do love that BAT sound.

Bob1062 wrote:As to the 6'4-for-everything, don't Alan Baer and Gene Pokorny play one in quintet?

DON'T BRING FACTS INTO THIS ARGUMENT. I love ya bob!


We all know that you have to have 4 or 5 horns to be successful in the tuba world. You have to have a small CC, a large CC, a big F, and a little horn for bydlo and Berlioz.


These are the ways, they are set in stone. Everything else is just a compromise. You can't have one horn and play it well and serve several purposes---- you are always compromising something.


The truth and fact shall remain. When you are good, you are good. The music world's obsession with equipment comes from universality. Equipment is universal, excellence is not. We discuss equipment pros and cons, because it is something we all have in common. It seems like the horn length and brand name seem important, because it is one of the few things we can discuss without our ears.


I can spend several thousand dollars and "darken my tone" or "brighten up my sound" or "slot better in the upper register, because I'm playing an F horn". The truth of the matter remains, we are all just blowing rasberries into a piece of metal and trying, somehow, to make something musical.



Wes "not serious---or very serious anyway" Pendergrass



Go out there buddy, try a bunch of horns! Have a bunch of people hear you play these horns! If you sound good and it can facilitate what you are doing----GET IT. Plan for the future, but don't just get a horn based upon what everyone else tells you. Enjoy playing your horn and get one that you are comfortable playing. Unlike the music you are playing, or the people you are playing with.... this is actually your choice. You have the control. Good luck, exciting times for you!

Bob1062 wrote:And I swear that I have heard that there are German players who use a big Bb for everything, including Bydlo!

That's the Russians Bob! The Germans mostly use F (at least in orchestras), only bringing out the Kaiser BBb, when the big gun is really required.

Bob1062 wrote:That may be, but I SWEAR that I heard that SOME Germans do it.

There is always someone who is the exception

Jonathan "who may be the only English tubist who exclusively plays rotary tubas"*

*If there are any others reading this, I would be interested to hear from you!

Contact Sam Gnagey. His horns are great and they beat the manufactured horns in the same price range. I absolutley love mine. The intonation/tuning is pretty good (I need to get a different mouthpiece to help bring the pitch down since I play sharp on any horn). The tone is dark but not too dark...it's right in the sweet spot.

But, I would talk to your professor to see what he feels you NEED right now. Maybe a big 5/4 or 6/4 could come a few years later, but if your switching, try a 4/4 or MAYBE a 5/4 until you get used to it. Those 6/4 require a different type of air than you're used to providing.

GeneralTuba wrote:I actually talked with my BD about this a few days ago; he said that I need to get a bigger horn when I switch (he suggested a 5/4 Kalison). I fill up my 4/4 quite well right now, I'm not too worried about not having enough air. BTW, thanks for all the advice!

Garrett

If that's the case, then I would suggest a 5/4...but I would talk to your tuba professor...I'm sure your band director is well educated, but you can't trust them on this topic unless they know a lot about the tuba. I was kinda in your boat, I played on a 4/4 and it was too small for my sound. Now I have a 5/4 and it's just right. 6/4's for most people is going to be too big and is only really good for larger ensembles even though some Professionals (notice the word Professional...not amateur) use them in smaller ensembles.

Before you put down several G's on a tuba...try out eveyone you can get your hand on. You might find that you like Eb's or F's better...you never know and you need to try some out before you take our opinions. Again, talk to your professor...that's what they are paid to do. My prof. (Dr. Louis Young) helped me out a lot. He even came to his office after hours to play the horn while I was trying it out. He loved it and gave it his stamp of approval. Don't just buy a horn based on it's reputation...buy a horn that you have personally played, not just one of the same model either...but the EXACT ONE that you played on and liked. There are a lot of inconsistencies among manufactured horns. Some are great while a few may suck. I ran into that while trying out some Meinl Weston 2155's and Mirafone 1291's.

GeneralTuba wrote:(he suggested a 5/4 Kalison)

The last place I want to be is between you and your band director, but he is worried about the reputuation of Neptunes and he suggests a Kalison?

Make sure you can play any of these suggestions in tune without having to stand on your head.

Don't buy an instrument that you'll lose a ton of money on when you sell it. And not too many folks buy an instrument at your age and keep it forever. Take a look and you'll see.

Rick "who suggests something that will hold its value" Denney

Arkietuba wrote:Contact Sam Gnagey. His horns are great and they beat the manufactured horns in the same price range. I absolutley love mine. The intonation/tuning is pretty good (I need to get a different mouthpiece to help bring the pitch down since I play sharp on any horn). The tone is dark but not too dark...it's right in the sweet spot.

I second the recommendation. Although they have their limitations, I've found, at that price point, they're really quite a steal. I've been quite happy with mine over the last three years.

CW

clintow wrote:

Arkietuba wrote:Contact Sam Gnagey. His horns are great and they beat the manufactured horns in the same price range. I absolutley love mine. The intonation/tuning is pretty good (I need to get a different mouthpiece to help bring the pitch down since I play sharp on any horn). The tone is dark but not too dark...it's right in the sweet spot.

I second the recommendation. Although they have their limitations, I've found, at that price point, they're really quite a steal. I've been quite happy with mine over the last three years.

CW

Another recommendation for Sam's creations. The horns he builds are typically modified old-style King 1241 BBb horns, trimmed to CC, using large old Eb tuba bells. So what you're getting is essentially a cost effective Hoosier version of a Conn 52J / 54J / 56J, depending on what Sam has in stock. The horns play well and (imo) have a nicer valve tubing layout than the new generation Conn 5xJ horns have. Most of the Sam Gnagey horns I've seen had not been completely restored (i.e. not refinished, relacquered, etc.), so I believe you are essentially buying a used-looking horn, not a brand-spanking-new looking horn. But they were "mostly refurbished", they play well and sound good, and you'll save a few thousand dollars over the 5xJ competetition -- a good choice for a nice 4/4 CC tuba. With the money you save, you can buy a used Cerveny / Amati F tuba and you're set in both categories!

If he has one available with the 20" bell, you'll get a 4/4 CC that sounds a little broader and might be able to pretend to be a 5/4 with the right mouthpiece.

Come to think of it, this route might be a good choice for Bob1062! (hint, hint)

Cheers,

Steve Inman wrote:

clintow wrote:

Arkietuba wrote:Contact Sam Gnagey. His horns are great and they beat the manufactured horns in the same price range. I absolutley love mine. The intonation/tuning is pretty good (I need to get a different mouthpiece to help bring the pitch down since I play sharp on any horn). The tone is dark but not too dark...it's right in the sweet spot.

I second the recommendation. Although they have their limitations, I've found, at that price point, they're really quite a steal. I've been quite happy with mine over the last three years.

CW

Another recommendation for Sam's creations. The horns he builds are typically modified old-style King 1241 BBb horns, trimmed to CC, using large old Eb tuba bells. So what you're getting is essentially a cost effective Hoosier version of a Conn 52J / 54J / 56J, depending on what Sam has in stock. The horns play well and (imo) have a nicer valve tubing layout than the new generation Conn 5xJ horns have. Most of the Sam Gnagey horns I've seen had not been completely restored (i.e. not refinished, relacquered, etc.), so I believe you are essentially buying a used-looking horn, not a brand-spanking-new looking horn. But they were "mostly refurbished", they play well and sound good, and you'll save a few thousand dollars over the 5xJ competetition -- a good choice for a nice 4/4 CC tuba. With the money you save, you can buy a used Cerveny / Amati F tuba and you're set in both categories!

If he has one available with the 20" bell, you'll get a 4/4 CC that sounds a little broader and might be able to pretend to be a 5/4 with the right mouthpiece.

Come to think of it, this route might be a good choice for Bob1062! (hint, hint)

Cheers,

I got my Gnagey horn about 3 months ago and I love it. It's satin silver with a 1915 20" Monster Eb bell that gives it the most gorgeous, full sound. I use a LOUD LM-7 on it, and that does very nicely. I get all the pedals I want, and at the same time, can hit everytthing in the high end without going flat. He also made my 3rd & 5th valve slides interchangable, so I can switch them and have a perfectly in tune Bb horn as well. Intonation is great from top to bottom in either C or Bb. I get compliments wherever and whenever I play. Sam really knows what he's doing.