BBb to CC switch

[Alex Reeder]

I am going through the same thing- switching from BBb to CC. What I did was not even look at a tuner for about 3 weeks when I first got my C. I just put a lot of time in and allowed myself to adjust. I just focused on getting a good quality sound before trying to make any adjustments for pitch.

I would guess that you are still in BBb mode (only 3 days!), so don't worry about tuning much yet. Just relax and get used to your new sound before even thinking about intonation.

You might not like this idea much, but the "take it easy" approach worked well for me. Even now, over 2 months later, I still hear my sound changing (back) to a big full sound. I think it just takes time - don't worry about it too much,especially after only 3 days with the new horn!

[Stefan Kac]

You might not like this idea much, but the "take it easy" approach worked well for me. Even now, over 2 months later, I still hear my sound changing (back) to a big full sound. I think it just takes time - don't worry about it too much,especially after only 3 days with the new horn!

I think this is the best advice. It took me over a year to really get comfortable when I started playing F. (granted BBb to CC isn't as drastic a change, but 3 days ain't much)

[Rick Denney]

I think this is the best advice. It took me over a year to really get comfortable when I started playing F. (granted BBb to CC isn't as drastic a change, but 3 days ain't much)

Adding F to my arsenal took about a year for me, too. I'm still more comfortable in some keys on F than I am on BBb, and vice versa.

But I disagree that adding F is harder than adding BBb. Adding F only changes about half the fingerings because the fingering patterns overlap, and the pitch is different enough so that my mind never expected the fingerings to be the same.

When I pick up a C tuba, my mind has a hard time with the pitch coming out a whole step sharp from what I expect. I suspect that would cause all sorts of intonation problems.

Also, in the switch to CC, all fingerings are different below the extreme upper range where fingerings almost don't matter.

Rick "who thinks it would take him at least a year to be comfortable on C, but who is old and who learns slowly" Denney

[Jay Bertolet]

You might be carrying over the intonation tendencies of your previous instrument to your new one. Kind of the opposite as Doc suggested, the C on your old BBb horn might have been quite flat (this is somewhat common on BBb tubas) and you might have been subconciously favoring that note on the high side. Since you're used to doing that, perhaps you still are on the C tuba? This would produce a pretty sharp note. I know this was the case when I switched to CC (for me, it was the very flat middle line D that is common on York Master BBb tubas).

I would advise you to do two things:

1) As other posters suggested, take time to really get used to the new horn. Every horn has its sweet spots and you need the time to find those with some regularity. Trust your ear and play simple tunes and scales (things that you have solidly in your ear such that you'll be confident that you can really hear any pitch problems) and listen to how the pitches line up. Be prepared to use some alternate fingerings for pitches really out of whack.

2) Try playing the middle C using the 2-3 fingering. How does that line the pitch up? Many times, we can play notes in tune better if we can hear them internally. Maybe all it will take will be for you to really hear what a given in-tune note sounds like without doing any manipulation to achieve it. Then, it may be easier for you to transfer that pitch to the normal fingering by really hearing it as the same pitch.

Good luck with the new horn.

My opinion for what it's worth...

[Art Hovey]

Sometimes an alternate fingering can solve an intonation problem. If that second-space C is sharp on your CC tuba you could try fingering it 23. That usually brings it down a bit. There are lots of other alternate fingerings to consider on a 5-valve tuba.

[Doug@GT]

But I disagree that adding F is harder than adding BBb. Adding F only changes about half the fingerings because the fingering patterns overlap, and the pitch is different enough so that my mind never expected the fingerings to be the same.

When I pick up a C tuba, my mind has a hard time with the pitch coming out a whole step sharp from what I expect. I suspect that would cause all sorts of intonation problems.

Also, in the switch to CC, all fingerings are different below the extreme upper range where fingerings almost don't matter.

Amazingly enough, Rick, the reasons you list are exactly why switching to CC was so easy for me. My lips fought the "pitch coming out a whole step sharp" effect for about 20 minutes until I got used to it. A lot of double-buzzing, and all that.

But the fact that every single note had a different fingering made the switch quite simple. Now, in my head, I have "CC fingerings" and I have "BBb" fingerings. I'm stubborn enough (you all from the politics forum know this) that when I get into one mindset on the horn, it's no problem. But I believe I'd very easily pick up an F tuba, play an open F, and forget which fingering set to use. Especially going up to, say, first line G. Suddenly you're in (sort of) CC fignerings. Yikes all around.

Maybe that's the difference between you engineers and the rest of us.

Doug

[Rick Denney]

But the fact that every single note had a different fingering made the switch quite simple. Now, in my head, I have "CC fingerings" and I have "BBb" fingerings. I'm stubborn enough (you all from the politics forum know this) that when I get into one mindset on the horn, it's no problem. But I believe I'd very easily pick up an F tuba, play an open F, and forget which fingering set to use. Especially going up to, say, first line G. Suddenly you're in (sort of) CC fignerings. Yikes all around.

That F tuba fingering patterns overlap the BBb fingering patterns in parts of the scale is a crutch during the conversion process. Once I got to where the F was standing on its own, it was like a different instrument.

The tricky part for some of us is getting past that learning curve. For me, learning the CC would require starting over with contrabass tuba--going right back to beginner scales and fingering charts. I expect it would take a year. And in the end, I'd be no better off than I am now, and probably worse off, because I'd be hard-pressed to find a CC tuba for what I'm prepared to pay that is better than the BBb tubas I now own. That fact saps any motivation I might have to make the switch.

For some people, the move to CC provided them the opportunity to go back through that learning process, and it proved to be good for them. I suspect it would be good for me, too, but it's not how I want to spend my very limited practice time.

Of course, anybody intending to perform or teach professionally should be able to play all four common pitches of tubas. If it's as hard for them to learn it as it is for me, then they might be getting a hint about their prospects as a pro.

Rarely do I lapse into BBb mode when playing an F tuba, though it does happen occasionally. When I do, it's because I allowed the image of a BBb tuba to enter my head. If my brain is triggering on the image as it seems, I'd worry that a CC would not seem different enough to keep the images separate. That might be true even if it's an aural image rather than a visual one.

Rick "who is free to be lazy" Denney