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Of the 7 Vaughan Willams' Symphonies that have a tuba part, which has your favorite tuba part?

4, hands down. Why it isn't asked on auditions I'll never figure out. That would certainly seperate a few people. I love the 2nd for sheer power, but the 4th is the greatest, and hardest, of the 7.

Chuck

I have only seen the tuba parts for the 2nd and the 4th. I prefer the 2nd for playing. The tuba part for the 4th is not playable by mortals, and all I can do is stare at the black ink wondering what to do.

Mike Sanders once described it as the most difficult tuba part in the orchestral repertoire. And Matt Good wrote on Tubenet that he just hung on for dear life.

But the 2nd is a wonderful, characteristic tuba part that is reachable by people like me. I just wish I would ever have the opportunity to play it with a real orchestra and not just along with the CD.

For listening, though, I'm with Chuck. The 2nd is completely enjoyable to listen to--just good fun. The 4th is a dark, abrupt, powerful, brooding mass of music that is nearly overwhelming. I won't miss a local performance of the 2nd, but I have driven across the state (and the state in question was Texas) to hear the 4th.

But I like the 6th nearly as well as the 4th, and the 7th nearly as well as the 2nd. What the heck; I like them all. I just don't have all the tuba parts.

Rick "who needs to run through the cycle again" Denney

I haven't played all of the VW symphonies, but we did 4 last week with Tortellier. I can see why Mike Sanders would describe it as he did - it is a real challenge! I think I got most of the notes in the scherzo, but not with all the articulations indicated. Ther may be people who can do that but I'm not in that league

Does anyone have copies of the other symphonies?

cambrook wrote:Does anyone have copies of the other symphonies?

I believe that 1, 2 and possibly 3 are in the public domain. You should be able to buy the parts to those. I know that 1 and 2 are on the Cherry CD.

I’m a big fan of the Vaughan-Williams symphonies and I’m surprised that so few players have voted for #6. The first movement is very similar to his tuba concerto. I agree that #4 is something really special and probably my favorite, too. However, if you don’t know the Sixth Symphony you really should get a recording of it.

I have only played the 1st and 9th and both have wonderful tuba parts. The 9th includes a couple of nice singing solos, a muted passage and it covers quite a range. I remember one was low and loud. I was playing my Besson 981 Eb at that time and could just not give the conductor as much as he wanted - wish I had had a CC then!

In fact, this was one of the works which first persuaded me of the need for a CC, very surprising when you think it must have been originally performed on an British F.

The 1st Sea Symphony I found equally great to play. Once again a couple of tuba solos and some very satisfying ensemble playing throughout. That time I used my PT-20 4/4 CC which felt just right for the work.

I would really like to play some more of his symphonies (particularly No.6). Unfortunately hiring parts is expensive, which makes many (amateur) orchestras reluctant to programme these great symphonies.

Don't forget Job a Masque for Dancing, its pretty athletic too. Also I almost never see Elgar's tuba parts mentioned,they are just as interesting and just as athletic--have a look at the Dream of Gerontius and the second symphony. They're not a blastfest but are difficult to get all the music in. Emotionally engaging into the bargain which brings its own problems.

VW 1 is a dream to play.2 is great. 4 is one of the most difficult things in the repertoire. Dont know the others to play just, to listen to

Bilmac.

Couldn't you have chosen some music that most symphony players play?

LoyalTubist wrote:Couldn't you have chosen some music that most symphony players play?

Why? Are we short of opinions on the playing characteristics of the Ride of the Valkyries?

Rick "who thinks more symphony players would play Vaughan Williams symphonies if more of them talked about it" Denney

Jack Tilbury wrote:I’m a big fan of the Vaughan-Williams symphonies and I’m surprised that so few players have voted for #6. The first movement is very similar to his tuba concerto. I agree that #4 is something really special and probably my favorite, too. However, if you don’t know the Sixth Symphony you really should get a recording of it.

Jack, I agree about the 6th, but I've never seen the tuba part. It's not as integrated or dark as the 4th, but the melodies are haunting--some of the most beautiful that Vaughan Williams composed--without giving up the power characteristic of that period of his work.

And someone mentioned Job, which is a fabulous piece of music. I've never seen that tuba part, either. People who were so surprised by the 4th Symphony had clearly not listened to Job or to Sancta Civitas, both of which were composed between the 3rd and the 4th symphonies.

To me, 20th-century symphonic music expresses power. I think that is one reason equipment has gotten bigger--players need to be able to express that power more efficiently, in ways their forebears didn't have to do as often.

Vaughan Williams was not the latter-day Romantic that I've seen written by some inept music historians. Nor was he just a folk-song collector. He was fully a member of the 20th century, even if he was not a modernist. Even the Tallis Fantasia could not have been composed much earlier, and it expresses enormous power and dynamic range for a work with only strings. The 4th and 6th symphonies were the pinnacle of his power sound, along with Sancta Civitas, Job, and his WWII movie scores. I can't quite imagine anyone singing the main theme from the first movement of the 6th Symphony--modal harmonies do not folks songs make.

Hearing what normal people love about modern movie scores suggests to me that a Vaughan Williams awakening might help lead to an orchestral awakening. For example, I've heard the complaint that Star Wars was derivative of Holst. What's wrong with that? I like Holst.

Vaughan Williams was probably too amiable for his own good. These days, we have come to think of artists as hedonists or tortured neurotics who have to tear their art out of themselves.

Rick "an RVW fan, in case it wasn't apparent" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:and his WWII movie scores.

I second that! I played a brass band arrangement of "The 49th Parallel" That was astounding. My favorite piece of his is also for brass band "Henry the V" Especially the final two minutes where is breaks into Byrd's "Marche Before The Battell"

But as far as his symphonies the ones I have heard, I love 2 and 4. I have a great New York recording with Bernstein of the 4th on LP.

Rick Denney wrote:I have only seen the tuba parts for the 2nd and the 4th. I prefer the 2nd for playing. The tuba part for the 4th is not playable by mortals, and all I can do is stare at the black ink wondering what to do.

Mike Sanders once described it as the most difficult tuba part in the orchestral repertoire. And Matt Good wrote on Tubenet that he just hung on for dear life.

But the 2nd is a wonderful, characteristic tuba part that is reachable by people like me. I just wish I would ever have the opportunity to play it with a real orchestra and not just along with the CD.

For listening, though, I'm with Chuck. The 2nd is completely enjoyable to listen to--just good fun. The 4th is a dark, abrupt, powerful, brooding mass of music that is nearly overwhelming. I won't miss a local performance of the 2nd, but I have driven across the state (and the state in question was Texas) to hear the 4th.

But I like the 6th nearly as well as the 4th, and the 7th nearly as well as the 2nd. What the heck; I like them all. I just don't have all the tuba parts.

Rick "who needs to run through the cycle again" Denney

Hearing Warren Deck play VW 4 with NY Philharmonic is one of the most memorable concert experiences of my life. Not only did he make it sound easy, but (as Tommy Johnson would have said) I could hear every note! And I could feel every note resonating in my chest as well!

That said, I too agree that the 2nd is a wonderful work and the tuba writing is very characteristic. It would have to be my favorite VW. I have not seen the part to the 7th, but that is my 2nd favorite VW symphony.

Talking of Vaughan Williams. Does anyone know anything about the tuba part in Toward the Unknown Region and Serenade to Music?

I have them coming up in an all RVW concert for his 50th Anniversary next year.

The Serenade part isn't much

bilmac wrote:Also I almost never see Elgar's tuba parts mentioned,they are just as interesting and just as athletic.

I would agree. Both Elgar and Vaughan Williams expect pretty virtuosic tuba players and both make use of the full potential of the instrument.