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I've asked a few people about this, and none of them know for sure.

I think it's general knowledge that french horns have the capability to play real low, and that they typically play very high in the partials, making all the notes closer together (also explaining so many missed notes..).

Based on this information, my question is: is French horn tubing length the same as an F tuba?

Obviously, the bore and taper would be quite different, but overall length?

SqueakyOnion wrote:I've asked a few people about this, and none of them know for sure.

I think it's general knowledge that french horns have the capability to play real low, and that they typically play very high in the partials, making all the notes closer together (also explaining so many missed notes..).

Based on this information, my question is: is French horn tubing length the same as an F tuba?

Obviously, the bore and taper would be quite different, but overall length?

The length of the "natural" side of the F Tuba and F French Horn are about 12 feet.


So yea.

iirc, a double french horn has overall tubing in the ballpark of 17 feet (including the valve section) while a five-valve F tuba is in the ballpark of 23-24ft, depending on the length of the 5th valve.

the french horn tubing length is deceptive though, because there are two sets of valve tubes, one set for playing in F, the other set for playing in Bb. The switch valve operated by the thumb lets the player choose which set of tubing to use, but never both sets at the same time. That being the case, the player can never send air through all 17ft at one time.

but yeah, without pressing any valves, you're looking at 12ft of bugle on either instrument.

-ck

This brings about a completely different question.



The contrabass french horn used by Bobo. On gravity is light.



What was its length? Was it long enough he was playing high in the partials, like a regular french horn? Or was it CC tuba length, with a french horn style wrap and taper?

Yes, an F horn has about the same length of tubing as an F tuba, while on their Bb side (assuming a double horn) the tubing would be about the length of a euphonium.

A double horn is the same length as a euphonium paired with an F tuba.

And no, you can't get a big enough mouthpiece into a horn to use it for either.

djwesp wrote:The contrabass french horn used by Bobo. On gravity is light.

What was its length? Was it long enough he was playing high in the partials, like a regular french horn? Or was it CC tuba length, with a french horn style wrap and taper?

It's in CC.

windshieldbug wrote:A double horn is the same length as a euphonium paired with an F tuba.

And no, you can't get a big enough mouthpiece into a horn to use it for either.

But you can fix a tuba mouthpiece around the reciever (or stick a french horn mpc inside a tuba mpc for the reverse effect.)

I always enjoy telling horn players that they are really playing a skinny F tuba ....

Cheers,

I play both. Same fingerings for the same (concert) pitches, but they read different clefs. F tuba is really fun to play on the low part of a horn octet.

MA

Bob1062 wrote:

MaryAnn wrote:F tuba is really fun to play on the low part of a horn octet.

MA

I would love to do this some time. Is this a hard thing to do?
Basically, are most French horn players too snobby to play with a tuber?

It's not hard, but the parts are normally written transposed, switch between treble and bass clef and are often an octave off in bass clef. You'll have to transpose or rewrite them. The parts used by the Wiener Waldhorn Verein usually have the low voice in C, sou you could read those without any problems.

Yes, french horn players are snobs and won't mingle with the lower cl/br/asses We're sooo special....
Actually, half my horn quartet has already made the switch to tuba, so we're halfway there to becoming a tuba quartet
Although personally I like the challenge of playing the low, low horn parts on horn.

UnderBeer wrote:

It is in CC

I was in a foyer outside a luncheon at U of So Cal in 1978 when the horn was delivered to Roger Bobo in a green plastic garbage bag. I have never forgotten the irony of such a magnificent horn in such a humble case.

bill wrote:UnderBeer wrote:

UnderBeer?

Start a 'hate' poll already!

Bob1062 wrote:...
The 4th part went quite low (from what I usually hear horn players play)- well into the 2nd partial, perhaps as low as a C. The guy did "alright" but I couldn't help but think how much fun that would be on a tiny F tuba (anything bigger and it becomes a tuba solo with 3 accompanying horn players ).

I'm used to reading transposed treble clef, so that probably wouldn't be a problem. Are they transposed in bass clef too?
....

(Pitches in concert pitch unless otherwise indicated)
In a standard horn quartet and octet setting the 4th/8th horn usually moves between C below and above the staff, so an excellent tuba range.
In more advanced writing an occasional excursion to treble clef C and above is possible. On the low end I've seen 8th horn parts go down to E flat below the staff, although not many horn players can play that note, and even less of them can make it sound good.

Parts are transposed all the way, and different from other treble clef parts because written middle C is the 4th harmonic, not the 2nd as with other brasses. In bass clef a lot of parts will be written an octave too low, so that written 2nd space C = 4th line F in concert pitch.
If you're really unlucky, you'll have treble clef parts with 6 ledger lines below the staff (I've got a few sets of those. Written in a hurry. With a thick felt tip pen....)

Bob1062 wrote:I saw a horn quartet a while ago with the ever-so-imaginative name of "Horn Stars"

Nooooooo. This cannot be true. That was the name of a brass quintet I played with for the last two years at school. This is blasphemy!

Course, we didn't do any better with 4 guys and 1 girl...but our recital had strippers!

Bob1062 wrote:

MaryAnn wrote:F tuba is really fun to play on the low part of a horn octet.

MA

I would love to do this some time. Is this a hard thing to do?
Basically, are most French horn players too snobby to play with a tuber?

The only problem I've found is that it is fairly easy for one F tuba to overpower seven french horns; but if the tuba player is willing/able to take it easy, it can blend quite well, especially if the tubist is also a horn player and has a concept of horn sound.

I also enjoy doing the very low parts on the horn, but it seems whichever instrument I'm playing, I get the urge to play the part on the other one!

MA

UncleBeer wrote:

I want one of these. Where can I get one?

Make your own. This C Contra-french horn is a one-off made specifically for the man, with the usual tuba 5 valve configuration instead of a french horn configuration.

Something tells me that horn has got to be heavy to be really taxing to play for long periods of time. I never could hold my french horn comfortably when I was a wee laddy (course, maybe the horn was telling me to switch to tuba ). I assume with 5th valve is a thumb trigger (I guess the only option would be to have it in the bell...as interesting as I find though, I doubt it) and no pinky ring, most of the weight would have to be supported by the right hand/wrist/arm/whatever. It looks a little big for one of those dandy horn gloves to help hold it up, but I'm sure a custom one could be made. If I had one, I'd probably end up engineering something out of double-sided velcro*.

I wonder how the stopped horn sounds!

*I add a pencil holder to both my horns via velcro. Also, on my CC, I added a very thing strip of velcro from the 5th valve rotar linkage to another tube to make it not rattle, instead of, ya know, being smart and actually getting it looked at.

Look! Now I have proof that the horn stars brass quintet exists! I uploaded the recordings of our recital to acid planet. Enjoy!

Horn Stars