Everything old is new again...

[Chuck(G)]

But for the lack of the 4th valve, looks like someone retro-invented the "new" 2341. Betcha the bell and bottom bow are almost identical...

[Lew]

The bell stack looks a little narrower and the valve tubing is slightly different, but it could almost be the current 2340. If only the current ones came with the same engraving and the gold wash in the bell like this one.

[Chuck(G)]

BINGO. Guzis gets the prize.

I'll go a step further and say that the bell and bottom bow are probably identical to those found on the old King "Monster" Eb (which is virtually identical to the old York "Monster" Eb). York used about a 19.5" bell; King used a 20".

[Lew]

On the other hand, here is a photo of a "new" King 2341 next to a York Monster Eb. As you can see they are very similar, but the King bow and bell stack are slightly larger.

[Chuck(G)]

[quote="LewOn the other hand, here is a photo of a "new" King 2341 next to a York Monster Eb. As you can see they are very similar, but the King bow and bell stack are slightly larger.[/quote]

Boy, "slightly" is the operative word! I sure can't see a difference between the two in your photo. What's the bell circumference at the top of the bottom bow ferrule on each?

[Lew]

Unfortunately I no longer own the York. I sold it last year when I was short on money, so I can't provide any measurements. I took the photo at the time because I thought that the similarity between the horns was striking. You are correct that the difference was slight, but they aren't identical. Still, they are clearly designed on the same basic concept. I would bet that a King Eb from the same era would match the King 2341 even closer, and the King that started this discussion is probably also identical.

[Chuck(G)]

I guess none of this should be surprising--Sam Gnagey's been building his CC's from King BBb bodies and York/King/Holton Eb bells for quite a while...

[Philip Jensen]

I think this picture is pretty clear about where part of the new 2341 comes from. This is my ~1913 King BBb. When recovered from the junk store it was missing the bottom bow guard. A new bow guard for a 2341 fit it perfectly. The bell stack and bottom bow are certainly one and the same. I'm not sure how mine compares to a monster Eb.



There's another view at:http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/p/j ... gtuba.html