Most underrated tubas

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:42 pm

OK, so we all know that the Thor is the flavor-of-the-month (perhaps deservedly so) and that previous fotm tubas include the 1292, 1291, 2000, 56J, 2165, and DS.

So, how about a list of some of the most underrated tubas out there?
The more obscure, the better, just no dogs!

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:56 pm

I'm not sure if it's not obscure but it is uncommon.

I own and love my Nirschl 4/4 CC. I've played several others now and they are all different but have the same basic characteristics: efficient, flexible, responsive, in tune and more. I've seen or heard of so few people playing them that I think I can nominate it for the category.

The handmade version comes in at a nifty $19,000.00.

David Zerkel · Post by **David Zerkel** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:01 pm

If someone were to hand me a blank check today and tell me to buy an instrument, I would buy a Mirafone 186. Not an obscure choice, but I sense sometimes that these horns are underappreciated by the lucky students who play them!

BTW, I agree with Alex, the Nirschl 4/4 horns are fantastic!

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:10 pm

The piston Rudolf Meinl CC. Just freakishly in tune with itself.

The Olds 099.

The old B&S made stencil BBbs that had one of half a dozen different names engraved on the bell.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:16 pm

Well, I think the the B&S PT-20 4/4 CC is rather underestimated. It is of relatively compact size, but it can certainly provide a punch - I never have trouble balancing on mine in even a large orchestra. I also heard "Tubeast" play his in a large symphonic band (of about 75 strong) while in Austria, and he came through clearly - actually (to his surprise when I told him) more prominent than a Willson Kaiser BBb also in the band.

At the same time it has a great lyrical singing tone (not dis-similar from a Besson Eb), making it ideal for solo and high register work.

I spoke to Bob Tucci about the PT-20 while in Germany, so I know he is very pleased with how this model turned out. Apparently it was originally developed in piston form to correct production problems with the previous PT-4P.

Cameron Gates · Post by **Cameron Gates** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:20 pm

cjk wrote:The Olds 099.

Ditto that. I've got one in the shop right now that is a joy to play.

Chuck Jackson · Post by **Chuck Jackson** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:21 pm

Mirafone 1865U-CC. The best all-around instrument made.

bigboymusic · Post by **bigboymusic** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:32 pm

pre80's 188's........
and some of the newer ones as well

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:40 pm

King -- especially for high school bands. With the front piston valves, they are well built, easy to blow, good intonation, easy to work on, and since they've basically been made the same for over a century, any shop worth its tools should have a bunch of crash parts accumulated over the years to keep them going.

Besson 3-valve comp like mine -- intonation is just damn perfect (or it will be again once I get the leaks fixed), and so long as you don't need to grovel in the gutter it is great.

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:43 pm

My vote goes to the Mira CC186's.... the newer ones with the bigger bells.

The older ones are a little too "point and shoot" for my tastes.

Wes "who owns one of the older ones and will hopefully have a much bigger bell put on in the coming months, courtesy of a little birdie from indiana" Pendergrass

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:27 pm

ahhh Wes, don't do that.That's the magic of the horn-the smaller bell.It has great focus with a really nice,not too big for it's britches,sound.If you want a bigger sound,buy or trade for a bigger horn.Unsolicited advice,as always

Eric B · Post by **Eric B** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:04 pm

I love my underrated Miraphone 186 too!

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:11 pm

"Short" 6/4 Martins.
Turn-of-the century BBb Keefers.
Old Distin horns.

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:32 pm

MikeMason wrote:you want a bigger sound,buy or trade for a bigger horn.Unsolicited advice,as always

I want a slightly more American sound.

My new mira had that. My old mira doesn't. It is personal preference, and the newer ones sound better to me because the bell flare begins much earlier.

If I was looking for something "bigger", I'd get a Thor or Baer. I'm looking for clarity with a sound that I am more fond of.

And unsolicited advice is okay, but I don't pay much attention to it.

I listen to professionals and professors who have heard me play. That tends to be alot more productive than picking your horns based off of someone else's personal preference--- them having no idea of what you sound good on.

Wes "knowing that mike makes the small bell sound good" Pendergrass

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:04 pm

According to two people I've been corresponding with, the Cerveny CFB-653-5 F tuba plays as well as the Firebird, has similarly good intonation, and costs half as much.

One of these people (jonesbrass) is a very happy 653 owner, and the other one is a highly regarded N.J. tuba repairman, who shall remain nameless, since his correspondence was via private email.

But he echoed the positive comments posted by jonesbrass.

FYI,

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:09 pm

Neptune wrote:Well, I think the the B&S PT-20 4/4 CC is rather underestimated. It is of relatively compact size, but it can certainly provide a punch - I never have trouble balancing on mine in even a large orchestra. I also heard "Tubeast" play his in a large symphonic band (of about 75 strong) while in Austria, and he came through clearly - actually (to his surprise when I told him) more prominent than a Willson Kaiser BBb also in the band.

At the same time it has a great lyrical singing tone (not dis-similar from a Besson Eb), making it ideal for solo and high register work.

I spoke to Bob Tucci about the PT-20 while in Germany, so I know he is very pleased with how this model turned out. Apparently it was originally developed in piston form to correct production problems with the previous PT-4P.

PT-20 question: what's the bell diameter?

The VMI web site says 450mm / 16.5 inches. But I calculate 450mm = 17.7 inches. And I think I've seen others post that it's 19 inches.

So -- what's the REAL answer?

Thanks!

tubafatness · Post by **tubafatness** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:23 pm

At least in the US, it seems like Rudolf Meinls don't really get the recognition they deserve. I wouldn't trade mine in for anything, (well, if we're getting picky here, I might consider some day buying a tuba that plays just the slightest bit more in-tune on some notes.) Besides that, I also don't see as much about the "cheaper" but supposedly solid horns like the aforementioned Cerveny.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:41 pm

Steve Inman wrote:PT-20 question: what's the bell diameter?

The VMI web site says 450mm / 16.5 inches. But I calculate 450mm = 17.7 inches. And I think I've seen others post that it's 19 inches.

So -- what's the REAL answer?

Thanks!

Just run the ruler across mine and the bell is 480mm - 18.9 inches.

The VMI website may have it wrong, but the new B&S one is correct - http://www.ja-musik.com/tuba/cctuba.php.

I believe the 450mm applies to its predecessor, the PT-4

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:57 pm

- Olds 0-99
- B & S stencil ... aka Carl Wunderlich, Sonora, Gerhart Schneider, etc.
- Mirafone 1864U
- King 1240/2340 from the 50's - 70's. Many were bell-front horns.
- Conn 14K sousa

T. J. Ricer · Post by **T. J. Ricer** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:53 pm

I don't see them metioned too often on TubeNet, but the horns that Sam Gnagey is building are great (Gnageyphone?). I got to blow a couple notes on his newest one last weekend and they just seem to get better and better. They, to my ear, play meatier than the other models of similar dimensions (Conn, Getzen). I've also never met anyone who owned one and wasn't happy with it, so that's as good a benchmark as any.