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How much practicing is too much practicing? (per day)

I want some opinions. Obviously there is a physical point where one should quit to avoid injury, But beyond that can you really practice to the point of it just not being worth it anymore?

So for you, personally, what is that "magical amount" of practice time?

Would it vary if you're preparing for an important audition or recital?
Do you fight through a lack of focus or do you just put down the horn and come back later?
What is your signal that you should quit for the day?

The reason I am asking is because it is so hard to get straight answers on this issue from many people. I am really curious about issues like this for my own benefit and for the benefit of people that I may teach later on.

***if you want to post an individual practice regimen/schedule, I would be greatly interested, especially if you explain your experience level***

For those of us who work day jobs with normal hours, we can't really do much than an hour or two and still expect to have a normal family life. When I play gigs in the evening, I practice even less.

Where's the "none" option?

On a daily basis, the only playing I do is at group rehearsals or concerts. If I don't have a rehearsal or concert I don't play. No "personal" practice at all, in fact I've been in my current home 5 years and my instrument has never been played there.

As for experience level, the highest level Brass Band playing there is. I know that many top section bass players over here (and I mean world famous named bands) don't even have their own instrument, and don't even take one home to practise. They just turn up and play.

What about other areas of study? Since playing tuba is a physical "exercise", I would suspect (since I'm not a pro) that it would be really challenging to spend more than about 4 hours / day in total playing time. This could include private practice and ensemble practice. But for the "full-time pro" there could / should be other things to do that are also part of the job, right? Listening to various orchestra performances / interpretations of a piece? Studying related material? Reading or studying about the composer, period instruments, interpretation, etc.?

A professional engineer may spend 60% - 70% of his/her time doing "engineering" work, and the rest is spent in "related" tasks that are also necessary, but not part of the actual "main thing" that they are tasked to do.

I would expect a full-time pro to spend 6-8 hours a day, total, in things related directly or indirectly to his/her musical profession. I would guess that about half of this would involve actual playing.

Am I close? Or way off? (completely guessing based on the only analogy I know -- MY profession)

Cheers,

adam0408 wrote:How much practicing is too much practicing? (per day)

In short, when it interferes with actually having a life.

For me, practice is mostly a conditioning exercise so I can comfortably play 3-4 hour gigs several times a week during our fall and spring seasons. That means about 2 hour practice sessions 3 or 4 times a week during August and February and then 30 minute sessions a couple of times a week in season to maintain that conditioning between gigs and our weekly practice session.

The two months off between seasons I have other things to do that got neglected in season. I rarely pick up a horn during those times.

Sometimes the only time I play is at band or church rehearsals. If I get any practice time at home, it can be anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour & a half. I'd love to be able to practice more, but work, family, etc. come first. Imagine that.

AndyCat wrote:I know that many top section bass players over here (and I mean world famous named bands) don't even have their own instrument, and don't even take one home to practise. They just turn up and play.

That is really surprising Andy! I have always assumed that that high standard was reached by LOTS and LOTS of practice.

If I miss practicing two days running, I notice the detrimental effect on my playing.

Jonathan "who thinks a few must just have natural ability, while the rest of us have to work at it"

Five hours a day. Wow! I have to admit that I have never had a routine of 5 hrs. a day of individual practice. I have always considered myself pretty dedicated to practicing. I practice some pretty much every day, even now. As a college student, it was usually 2-3 hrs. Occasionally more.

As is mentioned above, the quality of the practice time matters, as well as the quantity. At this point in my life, the majority of my individual practice time is spent on fundamentals.

... if you are preparing for an professional audition is one thing. Practicing to stay in shape to keep the job after you win it is another.

Alan Baer, in a Master Class, stated that he rarely did more than 3 hours a day when he was "in the hunt" so to speak. Alan's practice regimen is quite efficient and he was still playing professionally with Milwaukee each day as well.

Alan spends his mornings getting warmed up to get the job done and it doesn't require the same amount of time. It still requires the extremely critical "ear" and the strong work on fundamentals, but you need to have something left when you walk into rehearsal.

A lot will depend on the repetoire for that week as well. If you're doing New World Symphony, then you can probably dig harder in your practicing for the literature that is heavier and further out in the performance schedule. If you're doing John Adams Harmonielehre, well..... you're going to need a lot in reserve - especially if you are performing it at altitude.

The key things are 1) have a specific goal/objective clearly in mind when you walk into the room; 2) stay focused on that objective; 3) pace yourself and take breaks at intervals that complement the strain for the level you are working on; 4) know when to quit/walk away.

Practicing is like eating a fine meal. You start with the Spinach - the stuff you hate (but served well), and work your way through the "meat and Potatos" and then settle in for dessert - the fun stuff. Too many students start with dessert and have no room left for the meat and potatos all too soon. PRACTICE SMART.

Roger

Roger Lewis wrote:...<snip> Practicing is like eating a fine meal. You start with the Spinach - the stuff you hate (but served well), and work your way through the "meat and Potatos" and then settle in for dessert - the fun stuff. Too many students start with dessert and have no room left for the meat and potatos all too soon. PRACTICE SMART.

Oh, that is good advice!

Roger Lewis wrote:
Practicing is like eating a fine meal. You start with the Spinach - the stuff you hate (but served well), and work your way through the "meat and Potatos" and then settle in for dessert - the fun stuff.

Not sure I understand. Perhaps if you posted some pictures . . .

I had to think about that for a minute or two. I guess since this IS a tuba forum one can assume you are talking about practicing the tuba. I would have to vote for 'none'... but that's not an option. Since I play music with a group seven days a week, I cast my vote for 1-2 hours.

AndyCat wrote:As for experience level, the highest level Brass Band playing there is. I know that many top section bass players over here (and I mean world famous named bands) don't even have their own instrument, and don't even take one home to practise. They just turn up and play.

I was aware of one full-time pro (Raymond Turner, principal tbone, Detroit) who was reputed never to have practiced during his porfessional tenure. He also chain-smoked. Probably a freak of nature.

When I was completing my B. Mus, I sometimes played eight hours/day between practice, band, orchestra, marching, lessons, and community groups. At Ohio State, it was closer to 3-5 hours (and they still graduated me!) Today, I am prepring for a faculty audition. Two hours is my target, and it's working. As stated by others, though, I am a much better practicer today than in my early twenties. Hope that helps.

Per my previous post, knowing that I'm limited in practice time, I realize my progress is very slow. Maybe I should use another Dirty Harry quote, "Man's got to know his limitations."

Right now I'm practicing more than I have in previous years. For one,I just got a new horn so I'm still on that new horn high and trying to play it and justify the money spent, and two I'd like to start preparing for grad school auditions. I've got a couple years to get ready as my wife just started her masters and we can only afford one of us in school at a time.

C'mon guys! You CAN'T count rehearsals, especially orchestral rehearsals where you're sitting for 2 and a half hours and only playing for 30 minutes!!! There's only so much you can accomplish while counting rests or goofing off (or sometimes a little of both)!

adam0408 wrote: ***if you want to post an individual practice regimen/schedule, I would be greatly interested, especially if you explain your experience level***

I practice at least 2 hours a day, regardless of situation. I usually average closer to 28 hours per week on the instrument. I do not count mouthpiece buzzing, as I'm usually doodling with something else while I do it. Every once in a while I take a weekend off, for my chops to recover, especially if I've been hitting the high range a lot.

My "experience level" is not really something I can comment on. Other than the fact I practice a lot, I perform a lot, I have a background in the Drum Corps activity, and I've played almost all of the standard tuba literature. Commenting much more on that would be assinine and be setting myself up for flame bait.


1. I begin each day with light mouthpiece buzzing. I usually begin with a tuner for pitch, and do 1-5-1 slurs, down the chormatic series, then back up.

2. In the mornings I make every attempt to do my warm up, otherwise I do it 45 minutes before I'm supposed to play/practice/do a gig. This warm up is broken down into several parts.
A. The entire J.D. Shaw/Sam Pilafian slur warm up, all the way down the finger series.
B. Sam's "Smooth Air Movement Exercise", to the lowest range possible.
C. Legato-Staccato Articulation Exercises
D. Tongue acceleration exercises.
E. Do to Sol sixteenth double tonguing on each finger series.
F. I then do the Hipbone Music 20 Minute Warm Up by Michael Davis.
G. If it is an odd day, I do every minor scale, in every mode, full range. Evens are majors.
H. I do one of the Michael Underwood, "Amazing Grace" lip slur variations.
I. I go to my "bucket of doom" an randomly select one a chip, that determines a key for a bill bell exercise. I do this usually 5 times.

I put all of this warm up material in a grey 3 inch holed binder. I'd be more than happy to make a copy of all the materials except the Hipbone stuff.

3. In my "practice session" I determine what I am playing and when I am playing it. I begin each new piece at an extremely slow rate, with the metronome. Depending on how long until the performance, I increase the speed to a vary degree each time. I will play all parts down or up octaves, until I have facilitated pitch well enough to perform it proficiently at the desired speed in the correct register. If I make any "concentration" errors, I repeat the entire page---regardless of where I am at in the music. Repeated errors, mean that I increased the metronome too quickly and I return to a lower speed.

4. In every practice session I also take a famous tune, and attempt to play it in a new key. I also steal as much music as possible from other instruments, and read that, trying to gain transposing and lyrical/phrasing skills that are difficult for our instrument to handle.

djwesp wrote:

adam0408 wrote: ***if you want to post an individual practice regimen/schedule, I would be greatly interested, especially if you explain your experience level***

I practice at least 2 hours a day, regardless of situation. I usually average closer to 28 hours per week on the instrument. I do not count mouthpiece buzzing, as I'm usually doodling with something else while I do it. Every once in a while I take a weekend off, for my chops to recover, especially if I've been hitting the high range a lot.

My "experience level" is not really something I can comment on. Other than the fact I practice a lot, I perform a lot, I have a background in the Drum Corps activity, and I've played almost all of the standard tuba literature. Commenting much more on that would be assinine and be setting myself up for flame bait.


1. I begin each day with light mouthpiece buzzing. I usually begin with a tuner for pitch, and do 1-5-1 slurs, down the chormatic series, then back up.

2. In the mornings I make every attempt to do my warm up, otherwise I do it 45 minutes before I'm supposed to play/practice/do a gig. This warm up is broken down into several parts.
A. The entire J.D. Shaw/Sam Pilafian slur warm up, all the way down the finger series.
B. Sam's "Smooth Air Movement Exercise", to the lowest range possible.
C. Legato-Staccato Articulation Exercises
D. Tongue acceleration exercises.
E. Do to Sol sixteenth double tonguing on each finger series.
F. I then do the Hipbone Music 20 Minute Warm Up by Michael Davis.
G. If it is an odd day, I do every minor scale, in every mode, full range. Evens are majors.
H. I do one of the Michael Underwood, "Amazing Grace" lip slur variations.
I. I go to my "bucket of doom" an randomly select one a chip, that determines a key for a bill bell exercise. I do this usually 5 times.

I put all of this warm up material in a grey 3 inch holed binder. I'd be more than happy to make a copy of all the materials except the Hipbone stuff.

3. In my "practice session" I determine what I am playing and when I am playing it. I begin each new piece at an extremely slow rate, with the metronome. Depending on how long until the performance, I increase the speed to a vary degree each time. I will play all parts down or up octaves, until I have facilitated pitch well enough to perform it proficiently at the desired speed in the correct register. If I make any "concentration" errors, I repeat the entire page---regardless of where I am at in the music. Repeated errors, mean that I increased the metronome too quickly and I return to a lower speed.

4. In every practice session I also take a famous tune, and attempt to play it in a new key. I also steal as much music as possible from other instruments, and read that, trying to gain transposing and lyrical/phrasing skills that are difficult for our instrument to handle.

Damn, just reading about your warm-up wore me out. Wish I had your chops, or some of them, maybe just a little, **** I'd settle for a skoosh......


I spent three weeks with my wife at Meadowmount (real geeky super string camp) back in the day and sat in on her quartet rehearsal with Joseph Gingold coaching. The 2nd violinist was getting particulary frustrated at a passage in Beethoven. Gingold grabbed his violin, played it perfectly and handed it back. The guy stares increduously at Gingold and tells him he has practiced it hours, to which Gingold said "Did you play it backwards?" No was the answer and Gingold says "Why waste your time going in the direction you know, go a different direction each day and never practice more than 2 hours, it's all in your perspective". Pretty interesting exchange. How much is too much? You are asking the wrong people. Ask yourself after you have worked on let's say a Blazevich until you feel it's really cranking. TAPE IT. Get up the next morning and listen to it. You will have your answer. It's not the time, it's the approach.

Chuck

8+ hours seems excessive...

Chuck Jackson wrote: Damn, just reading about your warm-up wore me out. Wish I had your chops, or some of them, maybe just a little, **** I'd settle for a skoosh......
Chuck

No Sir, It is less than it sounds like. It is only about 40 minutes worth of warm up/workout.

One thing I like doing is using other excellent musicians as a resources. I know they didn't get to be good by picking their noses, talking on internet forums, or playing expensive equipment. So, every bit of time I'm with a good player, I try to steal as much stuff that they do and apply it to my playing and my workout routine. These players are an excellent source of knowledge on how to be great, using their input can cut out a lot of the middle man and time wasted while trying to figure out how to get better.

In the fall of 05, I made a list of my biggest weaknesses as a player, percieved and observed by others. I put them in a list, then I prioritized them, and set out to find all the exercises and warmups that would emphasize those weaknesses daily. I did this not to "go thru the motions" or whatever Mr. UNT was trying to call me out for, but so that each day I could get better at the things I'm weakest at. Doing this has made preparation of pieces much more easy and convenient.

Wes "who thinks chuck would be a good guy to take lessons from, and gather even more input" Pendergrass