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The only major intonation problem I have found after noodling around on my King 1240 3v BBb for a couple of months is that 2-3 combinations are extremely flat: 25 cents. I am pretty sure the third valve slide was cut too long (even for a three valve horn) since 1-3 C below the staff and 1-2-3 B below the staff are spot on instead of noticeably sharp. 1 by itself is slightly flat; 2 is just right. This is all with all the valve slides pushed all the way in, so I have no way to adjust other that by lipping, which is not getting it with the 2-3 notes so flat. The main tuning slide is out a couple of inches and open notes are fine.

So I think I should have the main (downward facing) third valve slide cut a little bit. There is plenty of room for pulling out later if need be, since there are two more shorter third valve slides in the "pretzel" at the top of the tubing. What would be a safe amount to start with?

Eric "who hopes he is on the right track here" L.

First, it's a good idea to check your horn out to make sure that there's not a leak somewhere (especially with the valves). Very often, a leak will cause things to flatten, and cutting a slide that you don't need to would be a mistake.

But if everything checks out and you still want to cut, use this handy tool:

http://www.bias.at/Download/english/calcdle.htm

It'll let you calculate lengths and figure out where you need to be.

Start by getting a good tuner.

Pull the 3rd slide 2" and see how flat it is.

Push it in to 1" and see how flat it is.

Push it in all the way and see how flat it is.

Use this information to estimate how much to chop off.

Bloke's approach, based on his experience, is probably going to get you pretty close. But I tried the above approach with the main tuning slide of a low-pitch Eb tuba once, and still ended up needing to snip more than I estimated. Yet I still suggest making the checks above to give you some sort of idea of what to expect.

(Of course, you could do it like an engineer would do it and: 1) use metric measurements, 2) use more resolution, 3) confirm via sliderule ....)

Cheers,

Steve "resisting the urge to suggest 0.5cm increments" Inman

It's usually not possible to make much significant change by just whacking the tuning slide. You're probably going to have to remove the outer slide tubes from the horn and cut them from the top. Some of those outer slide tubes have a step on the inside. You don't want to remove the stepped portion of the outer slide as you will be decreasing your available slide motion.

Actually, some of those Kings had two different main tuning slides... one for bell-front horns and one for bell-up horns. The difference was in the length of the ferrules.

Mark Heter wrote: If you are a pull-as-you play guy (how much depends on the horn for me), you might also wish to think about the 1st slide. Older Kings have it soldered in place on the top; I remember begging them to change this back to the pullable slide back in the Seeburg days. I also had the lower portion cut, and soldered in place with water key installed. The flat 1st slide will bug you every time you start the Holst in Eb, or play Ain't Misbehavin', for that matter.

Mark has the right idea here. You can have a competent repair person shorten the 3rd valve tubing to bring the 2&3 combinations up to pitch and have the long, lower 1st valve slide crook soldered in place and use those inner and outer slide tubes to make the upper 1st crook into a slightly shorter pullable slide. That's pretty much what we do on the CC conversions of the 1241 and 2341 Kings. Here's what that looks like:

OK, I chickened out on the slide cutting. The main reason I did not do it or have it done is that there is nowhere to cut more than 1/4" on the lower portions of the #1 and #3 slides because of braces getting in the way. The braces would have to be moved around, and this is a little more than I trust my local repair guys with - they would probably not even want to do it.

So I went to Plan B -trade it for a four valve 1241 that they have at a local music store. I about fell off the chair when I realized that the first and third slides were not significantly shorter on the four valve, in fact it had the same problem notes. Some #1 fingered notes were actually worse/flatter than my three valve (C in the staff was almost unuseable), and the fourth valve brought absolutely nothing to the party intonation-wise (B&C and low F&E below the staff with the fourth valve were about the same as 1-3 on my horn).

While the option to have non-priveleged notes below low E was tempting, the response of the other horn was not nearly as good as mine - seemed kind of dead. This was my initial thought after trying both horns several months ago, but I thought maybe it would be different after I was used to playing this model. Honestly, community band type lit rarely goes below low F or E anyway, and I have very useable falsies if I need them or feel like inserting the odd pedal tone on last chords, etc. So I will keep my 3 valve unaltered and see how I feel after concert season is over.

Another odd thing about the four valve was that it was about 100 degrees of the attic of the music store, and I only had to have the main slide out about 3/4". Made me nervous about cold weather.

The last time I obsessed about the scale on a 3v BBb, it was my Conn 32K sousa, and everyone absolutely loved the way that horn sounded, never heard anyone complain about it.

Sorry to ramble, I feel better now.

Eric "who thinks King cut their 124x slides too long, period, at least on these two horns" L.

[EDIT: a lucky bonus of the whole trip to the store was I found the bell with the same serial # as the body of my horn packed in with yet another 1240 and was able to reunite them - they were mismatched before. I also picked up a bell case so I have a case for each bell now. Oddly the bell I had was 21.5" in diameter and the correct/matched bell was 22.0" **scratches head**]