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I have been teaching a second year tuba student who has just started marching band. I have been working on getting him to play with a large clean sound with crisp articulation and to be able to project on the field. We use the syllable Toh (pronounced toe) or sometimes Tah, and his attacks are not disproportionately strong. He was just harshly reprimanded by his low brass coach (supposedly a tuba player, I will not pass judgement as I never met him) that he should always use a D articulation and never a T articulation. I will agree that in the context of performing a Bach cello suite in a recital hall that a D articulation may work better. However, I was rather surprised at the strong attitude for a soft articulation when blowing through 18 feet of Sousaphone on a 100 yard field. I have had the T syllable hammered into me by virtually every teacher over the years, but I just wanted to test the waters of the TNFJ and see what the consensous was in a marching band context. My previous experience with Sousaphone lines as three years of band camp teching was that without a clear articulation they sounded like a bunch of geese honking.

Air. More air. Then add air. Outdoors, what makes clean articulation is proper air support. It doesn't matter what the actual consonant used is, as that can't be heard once you get to the edge of the field. Yes, it does have to be clean and defined, but the actual consonant does not matter so much as proper air support. When I marched, from a freshman in high school all the way through to grad school, I'm not sure I ever really cared about what my consonant was. All I remember is that when I gave the proper air, the conductor was pleased, and when I didn't, he wasn't. This included teachers, professors, grad-*** section leaders, etc., the majority of which were low brass emphasis.

Here I was, in graduate school in another discipline, marching one semester at Mizzou for the fun of it. We had a routine for one game that included a marching band version of Big Noise from Winnetka, in concert D major. When we got to the break, the director, who was also the department chair, was not pleased. He stopped the band and had individual try-outs right then and there on the signature bass riff, and had the rest of the band sit down on the ground where they were. The section leader, a tuba performance grad-***, flubbed it. The next two guys, music majors, butchered it. Another non-music grad student playing for fun like me just waived it off. As the director was getting despondent, I raised my hand and asked to try it. He said something like, well, alright -- nothing left to lose. I nailed it. Everyone in the band literally jumped up and gave me a standing ovation. Afterwards the department chair asked if I wanted to change grad schools to music. I declined. I wonder now if I should have....

The whole point of this is my tongue is probably somewhere in the middle: not a pointed tip of the tongue against where the teeth meet the hard palate for a true "T," but not the flat of my tongue fully against the palate for a true "D," either. For me, my tongue is probably in that in between where a spot just behind the tip of the tongue hits the palate just behind the teeth, kind of like saying the Chinese "Tao" or "Dao," as it's spelled both ways because the actual consonantal sound is between the two. I find for me this gives the cleanest attack because unlike a true Western sibilant "T," it keeps enough tongue that a true efficient stopping and starting of the air occurs without any tendency of airiness or breathiness, and unlike the Western "D," there is less chance of inertia of the entire tongue to overcome which doesn't let the air go immediately which impairs tone as well as intonation. Another way to think about it is the way most American dialects soften the "T's" in the word "letter," so that the consonant approaches a "D" sound, but is still sharper than a pure "D."

A very heavy Dah/Doh. The "T" breaks the focus of my airstream.

iiipopes wrote:Here I was, in graduate school in another discipline, marching one semester at Mizzou for the fun of it. We had a routine for one game that included a marching band version of Big Noise from Winnetka, in concert D major. When we got to the break, the director, who was also the department chair, was not pleased. He stopped the band and had individual try-outs right then and there on the signature bass riff, and had the rest of the band sit down on the ground where they were. The section leader, a tuba performance grad-***, flubbed it. The next two guys, music majors, butchered it. Another non-music grad student playing for fun like me just waived it off. As the director was getting despondent, I raised my hand and asked to try it. He said something like, well, alright -- nothing left to lose. I nailed it. Everyone in the band literally jumped up and gave me a standing ovation. Afterwards the department chair asked if I wanted to change grad schools to music. I declined. I wonder now if I should have....

So, were you the "principal sousaphone" at Mizzou?

D'oh!

Coder wrote:Isn't the appropriate articulation in the music?

Perhaps my high school played too much modern DCI-ish stuff, but it was all right in front of me...

The point was more pedagogical. We spend about 5-10 minutes at the beginning of each lesson on breathing, and "moving air as wind", similar concepts to what iiipopes described above as being crucial on the field, and in all playing. I was just surprised that my student would be berated for using a T articulation on the field and told to soft tongue everything. I wanted to touch base outside my bubble and see if that was a growing movement in marching. Interestingly enough, from what he has said much of their arrangement this year lies in the middle to upper part of the staff, seemingly an octave above where the lowest brass part would normally be scored for playing on the field. (And, they do not have an electric bass or anything else filling out the bottom.)

And if the discussion turns philosophical, we will write a book:
The Tao or Dao of Articulation.

Articulation is a means to an end.Use which ever one is needed to get the sound dictated by the music.It may vary from player to player.

Can you say semantics?

think about it... there is no difference. In speech the only difference is the use of the voice. T= no voice; D = voice. the tongue (how do you spell that word?) does the same thing.

I understand the "D" is meant to be a softer articulation, but really it is a mental thing. physically there is no difference.

usually with tuba I feel the artix have to be exagerated (sp? good thing I was not an english major) so i teach "T" unless the kids is killing the notes.

I agree with iiiopes in thinking tAH or tOH or dOH or dAH, more air less tounge (there it is again...)

ken k

bloke wrote:I always prefer (particularly when playing a small [old/bad] trombone) the syllable "rhuuuuOOOhkk"

I do not use the k syllable. I prefer the g syllable.....

gen g

I guess what really rubbed me the wrong way was the way in which my student was berated, and told that you absolutely never use a T articulation. My experience has shown me that lack of articulation is usually a much bigger problem among inexperienced students than overarticulation.
This instructor seems to have a lot of absolutes: "Never breathe on a barline" is another one. Is that correct most of the time? ABSOLUTELY. However, I can name plenty of pieces where that might not be the case, paricularly on a bass line tuba part with rests between notes, or where a phrase starts after an eighth or quarter rest on beat one. And why the homegrown parts are scored in the middle part of the staff instead of the lower part and below is beyond me.

i understand your frustration. the young lions who are out there to change and enlighten the world know that it can only be done one way.....
k

ken k wrote:Can you say semantics?

think about it... there is no difference. In speech the only difference is the use of the voice. T= no voice; D = voice. the tongue (how do you spell that word?) does the same thing.

I understand the "D" is meant to be a softer articulation, but really it is a mental thing. physically there is no difference.

usually with tuba I feel the artix have to be exagerated (sp? good thing I was not an english major) so i teach "T" unless the kids is killing the notes.

I agree with iiiopes in thinking tAH or tOH or dOH or dAH, more air less tounge (there it is again...)

ken k

Thank you for agreeing with me on the more air point. But I respectfully disagree with your first statement. Having had 6+ years of vocal training (although with a broken nose fouling up my sinuses, you'd never know it now), along with other studies of articulation in speech as well as music, there is a distinct difference between the "t" consonant and the "d" consonant both in tongue placement and in the voicing aspect. As I said in my first post, a correct "t" has the tip of the tongue at the top of the teeth where they meet the soft palate, and a correct "d" vowel has the flat of the tongue on the palate, in addition to the sounding. The fact that several variations on American accents blur these distinctions is not controlling.

I do understand your frustration when absolutes are given to a group of students...especially by inexperienced or "know it all" instructors. I feel it is in the best interest of students to have teachers and private instructors that communicate and respect one another. I have learned to state my opinion and, based on what the student and teacher knows about me and my track record, I leave it to them to either accept or reject what I teach. Even in group situations, I always consider the individual in what I say. My purpose is to help each of them, however I can.

Anyway, I use Doh for most softer articluations and Toh for more pointed or direct articulations. Most often, I use the "oh" ending to the syllable mainly to keep the oral cavity round-like for resonance and the throat open for more flow with less tension. Having said this, I find singing the parts will direct the player to where the stress points in the music are and to the right articulation needed. I do think it is important to stress that lots of Toh articulations are not hard and have a lft or lilt to them. I don't think a universal articulation fits all music.

In response to what one responder to this post mentioned, unless you are mistaking "THoh" for "Toh", I find the D and T articulations both are performed on the bottom of the upper teeth and break the airstream the same way. (Notice I didn't say stop the airstream.) Like others have suggested, air, intent (song), and ease are still the main components for me. Hearing the correct articulation internally (awareness) is the first step in most of my teaching on this subject.

Good luck with your student. I hope any of this is useful.

Mark

From a purely phonemic aspect, the only difference between dah and tah is that in English we use our voices to make the D sound while the T is aspirative (know the word--it's how I passed my master's comps with 99%!)

There is no difference. But because D uses the voice and T uses only air, I went for the tah.

It's no big deal!

Articulations in general are fun to practise.
Whole bunches of them.
I think it pays off learning (and teaching) diverse articulations even if few of them are preferred when playing a given style of music. Humans are used to moving their tongue in intricate ways in order to speak properly. Let´s make use of that feature.
In my opinion learning all kinds of articulation helps building up an awareness of proper tongue placement.
This will benefit self control and the ability to improve on your own. Plus, when used with both brain and heart, slight changes in articulation, in combination with riding "the pocket" just might provide THE difference between music and etudes.

Just imagine the different attacks used on electric and string basses and try to reproduce these on tuba.
On some of these, you want to put your tongue on the rim of the lips instead of the base of your upper front teeth, for example. The "K"- attack may produce a more percussive sound, either.

In the eyes of you experienced pro performers and instructors, does this make sense ?

LoyalTubist wrote:From a purely phonemic aspect, the only difference between dah and tah is that in English we use our voices to make the D sound while the T is aspirative (know the word--it's how I passed my master's comps with 99%!)

There is no difference. But because D uses the voice and T uses only air, I went for the tah.

It's no big deal!

With due respect, especially with teaching children with speech difficulties to enunciate plainly, it is a big deal, and you are probably the same as the vast majority of Americans who do flatten their tongue against the palate for the "t" consonant, blurring it, just without the vocal additive that makes it into a "d" consonant. President Clinton, being from and having an Arkansas dialect in his speech, was one of the most recent notable people who flatten their tongues and blur the "t" consonant. And the rain in Spain does stay mainly on the plains.

We aren't talking speech difficulties here... We are talking about articulation... When I was a full-time instrumental music teacher and I had a beginning band, I made it clear how articulations should be handled.

Now, with regards to those who speak a language other than English, it's different. In Spanish, for example, the T doesn't have nearly as much air behind it and the D, depending on where it is in a word, can either sound like a voiced T or something close to the English voiced TH sound. I haven't really figured out Vietnamese consonants yet...

Here is the way the Vietnamese pronounce products commonly used in the United States (my wife helped me with this):

Colgate [Con Got]
Ford [Pho]
Brylcreem [Bri Crin]
Alka-Seltzer [An Can Set Xa]
Nestle [Net Le]

Incidentally, when I've had students with speech impediments, I was always very specific with articulation. I grew up with several speech problems growing up, so I understand the mindset.

Then you of all people should understand the difference between the proper placement of the pointed tip of the tongue right at where the teeth meet the palate with a good aspirant to get a proper "t" consonant, as opposed to the flat of the tongue against the palate with vocalization to get a proper "d" consonant.