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This is a very interesting Conn Sousaphone. It has a serial#80117 (c. 1903). I've tried to figure out when the first bell forward sousaphone was made, and, this is the earliest I have come across.



Bell Collar 9.75in.

Bell: 30in

It looks to me like 40k/48K, but it is too early. The listings on the Conn Loyalist site include only instruments made after Conn started using a numbering system. And, this horn precedes that.

There is a 10 stamped in the bell collar (no K) and is probably just a mark to mate the bell and the body. And, it plays about 15 cents flat.

It has a 30 in bell (complete with the tendency to 'after-ring') that is lacquered on the inside.

Any thoughts on this old guy?

I would agree with the 48K answer, it looks much larger than my 40K.

OK, let me ask this question. Does anyone know of a Conn bell forward sousaphone with a lower serial number?

I would love to have a closer look at this instrument. There is something about it that seems suspect but maybe its just me. The bell engraving seems of a later period but I am not sure. The serial number seems a bit odd looking, maybe just the angle.

Daniel C. Oberloh

I can do that:

http://www.horn-u-copia.net/temp/sousa.html

Where did you read the serial number? In addition to it being stamped somewhere on the body, it is also probably on the tops of the valves as well. You might take your valves out, lift up the cork and felt, and see if the same serial number is stamped on each of the valves as well to confirm.

Yes, yours does match the description of the Grand Jumbo, regardless of model number or listing on the websites.

Fantastic souzy!

I just attended a lecture by Matt Brown on the life of J. P. Sousa. Matt is a fine tubist from Pennsylvania and focuses on the origin of the Sousaphone. He travels with the 1893 J.W. Pepper raincatcher and plays it in his performance. Matt has pictures of JP Sousa's tuba player with a raincatcher during this era. The man was nearly 7 feet tall, so had gi-normous horns custom built for him. Matt said that even though the JW Pepper horn is arguably the oldest souzy extant and was provably built for the Sousa band, Sousa tended to use Conn horns. Matt mentioned that the custom horns used by the Sousa artists would have had a lot of engraving and gold plating. If your bell-forward horn is 1903, could it have been one modeled after a custom built for Sousa's very tall tubist?

Doug

Hi , i own 2 Conn Jumbo`s , one in silver , one in gold laq . both look just about like this one you have , i see the # 10 is on yours , i own numbers 4 & 8 . both are in very good conditon and play really well also . im glad to see someone else has one too . i have enjoyed mine for a long time they are really something to play , very easy and produce tremendess sounds . best of luck with yours !

p.s. both of my jumbo`s have the word "Sousaphone " on the ingraving and C.G.Conn Elkhart Ind.
my 38K has the C.G.Conn Ltd
Elkhart Ind .

I agree with Dan about the bell engraving. In 1903, Conn was just "Conn", and not "Ltd" until 1915!

Steven,

What are the serial numbers on yours? And, what significance do you give to the 4, 8, & 10? just assembler's marks?

So, I wonder if this may have been a raincatcher that has had a bell forward grafted to it.

Additional pictures have been added to: http://www.horn-u-copia.net/temp/sousa.html

Note the valve pistons are marked 90117 not 80117 like the valve casing.

Kenton wrote:I wonder if this may have been a raincatcher that has had a bell forward grafted to it.

I think it unlikely with the matching braces on the body. If anything was grafted, I might more suspect a Jumbo body with an earlier valve-set.

Too many of the rest of the numbers match. Looks to me like someone picked up the wrong die to stamp the s/n on the body. The rest of it, as bloke said, quacks more like a 48K Grand Jumbo.

Have you run it with the valve serial number instead? That would put it @ 1905 or so, and in line with the picture of the 40K that is in the Conn Loyalist, along with being more consistent with the blurb from the Conn 1931 catalog quoted therein.

Remember, Conn has made basically this same valve block for over a century and a quarter, first on helicons, then shortened the main tuning slide for a souzy, then redid its proportions for a 20k, etc., but the main valve block is basically the same.