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Rubberlips wrote: Young players may feel that rotary valves have an oldfashioned, German look, they're not as glamorous as pistons.

I remember when rotary valves were considered glamorous and exotic. I think is was 1997 when I was 28. The pendulum swings back and forth.

Even though the miraphone valve sets are great, I always stick with rotors, because I'd rather have to move my fingers a little faster than focus on my legato playing so intensely. Not to say definitively one is better than the other. but theres my $.02. If we were to bring up famous players, pat sheridan plays on pistons, so, really it seems like a personal preference thing ot me.

bloke wrote:There has always been something about Miraphone rotary valves

I know what you mean from the couple of Miraphone I have tried - incredible fast and smooth valves.

However, it seems to me that Meinl-Weston/B&S* have improved their rotary valves tremendously of recent. When I received my PT-20 last December, its valves were noticeably faster and smoother than the Neptune made a year earlier - I would say very much like Miraphone rotors. Similarly when I received my gold brass 2040/5 this January, its valves were also the same, much better than those on my previous 2 year old yellow brass 2040/5. I am told, they are not constructed any differently, but maybe their finishing has improved?

I know rotary valves do not help with articulation like pistons, but I am still sold on rotors due to the greater comfort of their use and most of all, their reliability. I have not suffered a sticking valve in 3 years use (Yesterday in band, the other tuba playing a Besson asked if he could borrow my valve oil, because he was having problems - I said "I don't need to carry valve oil anymore with rotary valves!").

Jonathan "who hated forever oiling pistons to try to keep them working smoothly"

*Meinl-Weston rotary valves are made by B&S

bloke wrote:

Alex C wrote:

Rubberlips wrote: Young players may feel that rotary valves have an oldfashioned, German look, they're not as glamorous as pistons.

I remember when rotary valves were considered glamorous and exotic. I think is was 1997 when I was 28. The pendulum swings back and forth.

...dating back at least into the late '60's until (benchmark: tide turned) the advent of the Hirsbrunner "York Model", the subsequent pasting of its B&M-made valveset on to other models, and all of the other manufacturers following suit with similar offerings.

I agree in the 70's and 80's the rotor horns were always considered to be more "exotic" i think with Roger Bobo's popularity and the fact that he played Mirafones the rotors were much more the favored style. Also, perhaps because there were not as many pro level piston horns as there are today.

ken k

Interesting observation on the surface area theme, Joe.

I could imagine a piston valve where the only points of contact with the casing would be an annular ring around each piston port (and maybe a band around the top and bottom to maintain alignment). Be a bear to manufacture, but it'd beat rotors in the surface area category.

goodgigs wrote:This is the fourth time I've metioned this but I'm still looking for a firsthand opion of ALLEN VALVES I know they'll be much faster but I'm hoping to find out if they "feel like" ragular rotors. Do they "Play the crack" and do they slur differently then rotors which slur differently then pistons (minutely) and are there any servicing or adjusting proublems inhairent whith them that I should know about before I start spending money I haven't earned yet on them - like I did with My self lubracating plastic piston project which was a complete FAILURE?

Try the Allen out in plastic and see for yourself. My cornet "feels" like a normal rotary cornet, but it's hard for me to base a recommendation on such a small valve. And it's hard to base a recommendation on valves that were "machined" 100+ years ago. Conn had a lot of success with their squashed piston tuba valves, as did others.

I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but try it, and see...

I've never seen any valves faster than Rudolf Meinl rotary valves. They seem to be a cut above to me.

Chuck(G) wrote:Interesting observation on the surface area theme, Joe.

I could imagine a piston valve where the only points of contact with the casing would be an annular ring around each piston port (and maybe a band around the top and bottom to maintain alignment). Be a bear to manufacture, but it'd beat rotors in the surface area category.

Chuck... we touched on this in some of our recent emails. Proper fitting rotors don't touch anywhere except for the radial bearings at both ends and a very tiny bit of axial surface at each end.

The only possible downside to rotors is the fact that there is a lot of inertia in all the moving links and the large outside diameter of the rotor itself.

TubaTinker wrote: Chuck... we touched on this in some of our recent emails. Proper fitting rotors don't touch anywhere except for the radial bearings at both ends and a very tiny bit of axial surface at each end.

Ideally, neither do piston valves.

(What? Chuck's off his rocker.)

In fact, both pistons and rotors when properly operating should ride on a bearing made of oil and water; in the case of rotors, it's between the rotor and the casing. Were that not the case, a rotary valve couldn't make a good seal--and venting would be pointless.

Similarly, if piston valves had nothing but metal-to-metal contact, lubricating them would serve little purpose.

Does this make sense at all? Maybe Chuck is really off his rocker.

wow sorry about that, I did in fact switch rotors and pistons. sorry everyone!

Fast valves? You all need to play the souzy I used to play.

Rubberlips wrote:
...Baadsvik looks to be a big man. For us normal or undersized players I would like to add that the levers of the rotary valves can be grouped so that they are closer to one another, nearly like the fingers of the hand, while the buttons of the piston valves have to be farther from each other to accommodate the thickness of the tubing, forcing a normal-size player to splay his fingers....

FWIW he is a fairly average sized guy. When I stood next to him at the USABTEC a couple of years ago he was at least a few inches shorter than me and much thinner. I would guess he's right around 6' tall. His hands didn't look particularly large to me. Of course he can make magic with a tuba, but I think that his comments on how a rotary tuba plays can be attributed to someone of rather average size.