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Last Good Quality Year For Conn??

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:13 pm
by Gongadin
I have a chance to purchase a 4 piston Conn tuba with an upright detachable bell. The serial number starts with a "K", so I assume this was made around the mid '60s...perhaps '67?

I won't have an opportunity to play test this, and so I'm going to appeal to the more knowledgable of you out there -

what type of quality can I expect from this era of Conn? Is this basically a glorified student horn?

Helpful comments appreciated! :?

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:37 pm
by The Big Ben
A model number would help. If the seller cannot give you one, have a look at the "Conn Loyalist" page and see if you can match up a picture:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/

Since you mention that it has both four valves and a detachable upright bell, it could perhaps be a 25J:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/Conn25J1964image.html

That's a big, hefty horn BBb that has a full sound and is/was frequently used in concert band and Dixieland situations. When equipped with a front facing recording bell, it is a 24J, which is usually the version used in Dixie bands. Depending on who is making the determination, it could be called a 5/4 or a 6/4 horn. Either way, it has a big bore and a big sound. People who have reviewed it and its three valved cousin, the 20J, say that is is easy to play mf and ff but hard to play mp, p and pp.

If it isn't a 25J, someone else will have to fill you in.

I'm Pretty Sure....

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:45 pm
by Gongadin
The Big Ben wrote:A model number would help. If the seller cannot give you one, have a look at the "Conn Loyalist" page and see if you can match up a picture:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/
I'm pretty sure that the horn is a 25J.

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:37 am
by iiipopes
For souzys, the year before Macmillan bought Conn was the last year Conn made great souzys. I don't really know about any other horns, although the current 5XJ's are good, but not great for the price now that it's been raised up. The current bones like the 88 are supposed to be good as well.

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:13 am
by LoyalTubist
1941 and into early 1942.

All the big factories in America started making things for the military beginning in January and February. I had a friend (since died) who worked at the Conn factory in Abilene, Texas, at the beginning of the war. The Navy drafted him. When he came back to Abilene in 1946, he got his old job back at the Conn plant. He said the selection of instruments dwindled down to almost nothing and the quality was not as good.

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:23 am
by Alex F
Conn moved its production from Elkhart to Abilene in the early 1970's, after Conn was purchased by CCM. The Abilene plant operated until the early 1980s when production was moved to Eastlake, Ohio after some Swedish company purchased Conn and King to form UMI (now Conn-Selmer). I'm not aware of any Conn plant in Abilene during WWII but stand to be corrected.

The most desired post WWII Conn trombones are the "Elkies" made in the 1950s and 1960s. Abilene 'bones don't get much respect although some of them are actually very decent horns. UMI 'bones from the late 80s on are usually well made (I have an early 90s 79H that Lee Stofer likes very much). The "Gen II" series trombones made since the late 1990s are thought by many to be some of Conn's best efforts. You can expect to may significantly more for an "Elkhart" horn.

Does This Sound Fishy?

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:38 pm
by Gongadin
Did Conn engrave all of their upright bells? The tuba's present owner is telling me that the bell has no engraving on it whatsoever....does this suggest that perhaps it's a replacement bell?
How to tell?

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:57 pm
by WakinAZ
Could be a stencil horn or maybe it's just been buffed off over the years. The upright bells are sometimes hard to find, so could be a replacement or custom bell. Pics??

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:28 pm
by jacobg
In the trombone world there are several opinions about the best Conn eras. Everyone agrees that post 1970 horns are of poor quality (thus the 70's-80's craze for Bachs in the classical world.) Some people feel that quality increased approaching 1970, and some people feel that the early 60's were the pinnacle and that as the McMillan era grew imminent the experienced workers began to retire early or quit. You also have good quality components that were made in Elkhart, lasted through the move, and were assembled in Abilene (sometimes you have 1971 horns that still have "Elkhart" on the bell).
Other people value horns from other eras. 50's 88h's are highly sought out - these were the horns that standardized the "American" trombone section sound all throughout Europe, as American orchestras toured with them. Usually the late 40's - 1970 horns command the highest prices.
Certain people (like me) value the 1920's and 30's horns, which are more inconsistent but have more personality than later horns. There will be a resurgence of popularity of these instruments, especially because, unlike trumpets, Conn made trombones (in small numbers) in bore sizes comparable to today's orchestral models.
There is exhaustive commentary on Conn trombones and Conn in general on the trombone forum, including a lot of information on instruments and quality from 1900-1950.

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:20 am
by LoyalTubist
You are right about the factory in Abilene. It opened right after Macmillan bought the company. Remember, this was an old man talking to me. I think he was in his 30s or 40s when the Navy took him (the Army was drafting people up to age 42!) Maybe he forgot that he was actually in Elkhart. He was from Abilene. He died in 1988 after the university I attended gave him his fourth honorary doctorate (why? I don't know). He was in his late 80s at that time.