sharper outer rim

[SplatterTone]

Kelly 18. Capable of a big, deep, well focused tone. I have no way to accurately measure, but my guess is that the Kelly 18 throat is bigger than the Bach 18. The Kelly rim is a little more rounded than I prefer, but some sandpaper and experimentation can fix that. I have it in ten colors.

Although the Kelly 18 would be my top suggestion for something similar in size to the Bach 18 but bigger tone, I'll throw in the Yamaha Canadian Brass, and the Jet Tone R&S Helleberg Heavyweight. Both are Helleberg type which is not everyone's cup of tea. The Jet Heavyweight makes a good defensive weapon.

WWBW still lists the crystal orange Kelly 18 for $12.99, but that color is not in stock.

[SplatterTone]

And take a look at the Wick 1 and 2. If you don't mind a rather wide rim, you might like.

[Peach]

....Pt50 ........ I believe that the rounded outer surface of the rim is giving be problems controlling upper intonation.

Why on earth would you think that!?

If you like the 18 just go with it and work on the sound - Abe Torchinsky used one I think his whole career and nobody would argue with either his sound or ensemble effectiveness...

Another guy worth listening to would be Al Baer who says (to paraphrase) "play the smallest mouthpiece you can get away with".

If you must have something a little bigger and like the 18 rim, I'd try the LOUD LM7. The two rims are very similar (at least with my 18 to compare) and the LM7 is a great mouthpiece without being overly big.

It's easy to go too big with mouthpieces and end up fighting yourself; you lose control and intonation big time.
If you have a small mouth, you'll want something a little smaller IMO.

[iiipopes]

Matt at Dillon's had Vladimir shave the outer rim of a Curry 128D for me so that it's like an 18 rim, with its slightly narrower and a little more curved outer rim. Now, instead of crowding my embouchure or chin like you describe, it sits right where my chin starts to curve under the embouchure muscle and is eminently comfortable. My Kelly 18 for outdoors is the same, and I concur with the comments about the Kelly rim as well.

The price for the modification was very reasonable, and now I have a tailored mouthpiece for my 186.

The importance of outer rim contour and how it sits on your face comfortably so you're not constantly fiddling or adjusting and being distracted from the music is in my opinion, now that I've had one tailored for me, under-appreciated. No, that detail in and of itself will not make you play better, but to have it fitted to you removes one more item of distraction so you can focus on your music and playing to practice more and perform better.

Also, taking some of the mass off the rim, I believe, improved response by decreasing inertia, and therefore the effort required to get a mouthpiece to respond. At least it did when I experimented with my Kelly with golfer's lead tape. I put a ring around the throat at the bottom of the bowl, and dynamic stability improved. So I put a small ring under the rim, and all it did was impede response with no gain in tone. I took the thin ring back off from under the rim, and all of my response and flexibility came back.

Hey splattertone -- I have sitting on the shelf a Wick 1, 1L, 2, 2L, and 3L copy, all in the "old" "funnel" style. They are all made on the same blank and have the same outer diameter, differing only in inner cup diameter and cup geometry. The Wick 1 rim is not wide by any means. It is actually almost identical in all aspects to the Kelly 18. The 2 and 3 rims, then, are marginally wider, but only because the cup is smaller, not because the outer diameter is larger. So they sit the same on your face as a Kelly 18.

[Tubaryan12]

If I wern't so cheap I would have a mouthpiece made with these specs:

Throat: 7.92mm
I.D.: 32.8mm
rim: any Helleberg style rim
Cup depth and shape: Same as the Tuba Exchange Marcinkiewicz Rose

And I probably wouldn't like it either

[Mwtuba32]

give the schilke 67 a try

[SplatterTone]

all in the "old" "funnel" style

I failed to make it clear I was talking about the new stuff on the store shelves now. And I should emphasize that "wide" is a subjective term.

I took some measurements. The measurements were taken where the tip of the micrometer reached the point on the inside of the rim where the rounded part meets the straight part as best as I could see. So this is very subjective. With the disclaimers and caveats in mind:

Bach 18: 2.8 mm
Kelly 18: 2.73 mm (harder to tell where to measure with the plastic)
Wick 2XL: 3.2 mm
Wick 1XL: 3.1 mm

I think the Wick rims are Yamaha-esque. For playing loud, if loud is your thing, the wide rim on the 2XL provides a lot of support.

Another mouthpice I forgot about that I would recommend for a road test is the Faxx Helleberg. It doesn't look or feel like your typical Helleberg. The rim width and inside diameter seem to be very close to the Bach 18, but is a little flatter -- maybe that's why they call it Helleberg. I get a deeper tone from it than from the Bach 18. Rim width, using the above technique, is about 2.8 mm.

Of these mouthpiece, with my face, I get the most expansive sound from the Kelly 18.

[iiipopes]

give the schilke 67 a try

I have. A good mouthpiece. The upper midrange to the top is exceptionally smooth and secure. But I didn't have enough lung power to really get a solid low end out of it. For me, the response seemed to taper off the lower I went. I wonder if it is a backbore issue, as the cup and throat diameter are very similar to a lot of other Helleberg-derived mouthpieces.

[SplatterTone]

For me, the response seemed to taper off the lower I went.

I too think it is not the mouthpiece of choice for fat tone and low end power. But a lot of people find it easy to play.